Free Speech

[Miss Fatale]

BG: I teach writing to college freshmen. /end BG

In the United States, we take pride in the Bill of Rights, particularly the First Amendment -- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This means the federal government can't censor people. It doesn't refer to individuals or private businesses. That's why it's not a violation of First Amendment rights for TV networks to not allow certain words on the air, or a violation of free speech if your friend says "shut up!" One could argue about the ethics of those things, but legally they don't violate the First Amendment.

My students, though, have decided that everything I do that they don't like violates their free speech.

1. A student said I didn't respect their free speech for taking off points on a paper for spelling and grammar.

2. Several other students have complained that I'm violating their free speech by not allowing them to write about certain topics for their research essays.

You see, several essay topics are banned in my class. There are reasons for this, such as these topics are so common that it's easy to cheat on accident (I do explain this to the students). More importantly, I've read enough papers about X, Y, or Z to last me a life time.

But I'm clearly infringing upon their rights by not letting them write about obesity or global warming or whatever.

[dalesys]

Yep, tis free speech and you'll get neither credit nor grade for it.

[chikenlady]

This means the federal government can't censor people. It doesn't refer to individuals or private businesses.

excuse the ignorance, but, who can they censor?

[Soulstealer]

excuse the ignorance, but, who can they censor?

For example a business might ask someone to leave for whatever they're saying. They can do that because they're on private property rather than in a public space.

[ShadowBall]

Well that's some cute assumptions. Using their logic, if they aren't allowed to do whatever they want in class, it's a violation of their free speech. Sounds like something a typical spoiled, whiny modern college student would say. It's like people who threaten to sue over dumb, trivial shit; it's all talk and absolutely no action. And if they don't like how you run your class, I'm sure the door isn't too far away.

Bad grammar is not freedom of speech - it's stupidity. Sadly, I'm sure if you exercise your free speech and tell them how dumb they are, you would get into trouble or get fired.

[Draco]

Over the years, I've seen the exact same arguments from idiots I've censored and/or banned on message boards over the years. I'm violating their first amendment rights, I'll be hearing from their lawyers, they'll have the site shut down for their rights being violated, etc.

The Bill of Rights. I don't think it means what they think it does.

[energyguy]

the UK equivalent is "Humans Rights Act", everything is infringing human rights, such as not smoking on a bus, to being told you have to pay your debt.

[draco664]

Over the years, I've seen the exact same arguments from idiots I've censored and/or banned on message boards over the years. I'm violating their first amendment rights, I'll be hearing from their lawyers, they'll have the site shut down for their rights being violated, etc.

The Bill of Rights. I don't think it means what they think it does.

I generally make a post along the lines of "Go ahead. I dare you to spend 150 bucks to speak to a lawyer about this. Be sure to listen when he tells you that you're an idiot."

A little bit of trivia - there is only one specific way an individual can break the constitution (there used to be two, but prohibition got revoked). Almost without exception, it limits the actions a government can take. (Well, sort of. It doesn't stop the various governments from passing unconstitutional laws, just from enforcing them)

[Dave1982]

Some posts in this thread are veering off-topic and into Fratching. Could we please focus on the sucky students and not on the concept of free speech in general? Thanks.

[thehuckster]

There's only one solution to this problem: When they pull the free speech card, ask them to do a research paper on the bill of rights.

[Jay 2K Winger]

This sort of thing is just like some of the Sucktomers I'd get when I worked as FDLP at the wholesale club, checking receipts. The Sucktomers claimed that it was "illegal" and/or "unconstitutional" for me to check their receipt. (And this isn't the place to debate such things.)

I did defuse one Sucktomer by pointing out that "the Fourth Amendment protects you against the government performing illegal search and seizure. <Store> isn't the government." He shut up, and even looked perplexed/stymied that his argument had been turned effectively around on his head. He eventually became quite a pleasant repeat customer.

Another batch of Sucktomers I defused by telling them "Look, if you want to argue the point, contact a lawyer and call our corporate office. I could get fired if I don't check your cart." They weren't happy, but they stopped arguing with me.

[veniteangeli]

Tell your students that they ABSOLUTELY have a right to free speech - but that the right to freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of said free speech.

Then give them all Fs. I mean, you've got freedom of speech too, right? Freedom to hand out Fs to students who don't toe the line?

[Jay 2K Winger]

Tell your students that they ABSOLUTELY have a right to free speech - but that the right to freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of said free speech.

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.

[veniteangeli]

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.

*takes a bow* Thank you, thank you. I've been in this argument before, and I will freely admit that I stole that little gem from someone else haha. IIRC the context went something like this:

"I can call you an asshole if I like! I have First Amendment rights! You can't deny me my freedom of speech!"

"I hear what you're saying, and you're right... you do have the right to freedom of speech... but not from the natural consequences of abusing that right in order to be a jackass. So, to that end, here is my rebuttal." *swift kick to the cherries*

[Moosenogger]

I wonder how many blank stares you'd receive if you flat out asked your students, "Am I a government body? Do I work for the government? Am I a government employee, either for the state government or the federal government? No? Then I can't legally infringe upon your first amendment rights. It doesn't work that way. Now, write your damn papers."

Some college students are idiots, and I fear for their children.