Let the Record Indicate This Guy is a Yammering Loon

[Argabarga]

Guy comes in a bit miffed because he got towed from "Some Apartments" He's really irked because he's a resident of "Some Apartments". The problem was, he didn't have his permit up in his car. It was later determined to have been in the center console buried under a heap of junk papers and fast food debris. Additionally, it was face-down, so that even had it been visible, the back side is blank, so there's no way to tell what it is. It COULD be for that property, it could also be for one of a thousand others that use white rectangle hanging tags. Per the rules of that lot, you don't have a visible permit? You get towed. He didn't like this one bit...

Him- We have a problem! I live at that apartment and you towed a car that belongs, that's illegal!
Me- You were towed for not having a permit visible in your car Sir
Him- That car is on file with the rental office!
Me- Doesn't matter, you must have a visible permit
Him- Not when it's on file!
Me- Yes, it's in your lease that you signed, your permits must be visible at all times or the car can and will be towed
Him- Well, why would the office call me in to be towed if they KNOW I live there?
Me- You weren't called in by the office, Sir, there's a person who checks that lot and any car they find without a permit is called into us. They called us at 7:40, truck was on scene at 7:59, left with the car at 8:04.
Him- The office didn't call me in?
Me- No Sir
Him- Then this is illegal! What gives YOU the authorization to just tow? You can't do that! You cannot legally take my car when the office has me on file and didn't authorize it!
Me- It doesn't work like that, Sir We are contracted by that apartment to tow any illegally parked car called in to us, and yours was for a no visible permit.
Him- And, where is YOUR authorization?!
Me- The permit parking only signs at the entrance to the lot with our number and company name on them, that's our authorization

Finally realizing he's going to get nowhere, he agrees to pay, so I start the paperwork, then the fun starts again.

Him - Mark on that receipt that I am paying this under protest and duress!
Me - No
Him - *deer in headlights look* ...... WHAT?!
Me - I'm not going to do that
Him- What do you mean you won't do it?! I'm paying this under duress, and you need to make a note of that!
Me- No
Him- Why NOT!?
Me - Firstly, there's nowhere on this form to make notations like that, and secondly, I don't have to, there's no legal requirement for me to do what you're saying, so I don't have to do it, so I won't do it, simple as that. And technically, everyone pays under protest, nobody likes getting their car towed.
Him- Ah! So you agree with me! Mark that paper that I'm...
Me - No, now either you quit arguing and pay now or you can leave and come back in the morning for the car.
Him - Oh, I'll pay! But it's under duress! (you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it does )
Me - Credit, debit or cash? *he slams card on counter*
Him- So, let me just get this straight, you're refusing to note that I'm paying under duress? That's correct?
Me- Yes, (I look up at this point and notice he's got his laptop held up between us, jockying it around awkwardly, apparently, he's trying to film me with a built in camera, or at least record me saying something that "proves" my guilt as I'm filling out the paperwork)
Him- So, you're refusing to admit that this is under duress?! Because it is! You had NO RIGHT to tow my car that HAD A PERMIT!
Me- It wasn't visible Sir
Him- And you had NO AUTHORIZATION to be in that parking lot!
Me- Yes we did Sir, our signs are up in that lot.

I finish, run the card, he signs the papers and leaves, on the way out I overhear him talking to the person who drove him in,

Him - I got it all! I'm emailing this to my attorney on Monday! We're going to court over this because it's totally ILLEGAL!!!

Yeah, you keep thinking that buddy, after that *cough* *cough* law student *cough* that I towed in last week for heaps of unpaid parking tickets, forgive me if I'm not exactly quaking in my shoes at the prospect of tangling with the kind of lawyers this town cranks out....

In retrospect, I would have loved to have grabbed him by the lapels of his shirt and stuffed his pointy little head up the coin slot for the gumball machine in the corner, but I didn't do it, let the record show it was only because I was under duress.

[Jester]

The authorization to tow is that the owners of the property have a contract with the towing company to tow illegally parked cars, including cars that do not have their permits visible. So the same people you signed a lease with, from whom you are renting, who OWN the property, have given the tow company that exact authorization you seem to think they don't have.

In other words, you're a fucking idiot.

[thehuckster]

Lol "under duress." He was seriously trying to get you to "admit" to charges of extortion or something? I think our prisons would be even more crowded if someone could get another arrested just because they didn't want to pay them anything!

[NateTheChops]

If a gun wasn't being held to your head it wasn't duress. I'd love to be the fly on the wall at his attorney's office.

[TheSHAD0W]

I'm surprised you take credit cards, considering how many people will try and charge it back since it was paid "under duress"...

[Argabarga]

I've mentioned it before, but, due to all the info we have to collect, both personal and vehicle, AND the fact that they're standing right under the security camera when "customers" pay for their cars, the chances of a successful chargeback is about nil.

Many have tried

I know of none that managed to win

[Raveni]

There are people that go past the "huff and puff" stage?

[Captain Trips]

I can see it now:

SC: I need you to sue for an illegal tow.
Atty: Was your permit hanging?
SC: That doesn't matter, I was on file with the office.
Atty: Was your permit hanging, or at least visible?
SC: That doesn't matter!
Atty: Was it visible?
SC: ....no....
Atty: Get out of here.
SC: Huh?
Atty: And that will be $50 for wasting my time.
SC: I'M NOT GOING TO PAY YOU! I WAS UNDER DURESS, AND YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING!
...etc

[mhkohne]

There are people that go past the "huff and puff" stage?

Must be. The number of idiots who think they shouldn't be towed is very high, there's got to be at least a few that think they can do a charge back to get out of it - many people seem to think that chargebacks are a way to get out of anything they don't want to pay for, but it's hard to argue with a cardpresent transaction with you on the security tapes signing the slip. And if the tow were actually illegal, you'd need to take that up with the cops. In Argabarga's case, I'm pretty sure the local PD would just laugh and send the fool home.

I wonder if the credit card companies have any special procedures for places with hig false chargeback rates (like calling the customer and saying 'are you sure? Because every other time we've tried this they've proved their case and we'd rather not do the paperwork if you're just an idiot')

[Rainman]

The sheer amount of SCs on this site who always go the "THATS ILLEGAL!!!" route is astounding. I know we have alot of lawyers in this country but geez, lol.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Let the record show, Your Honor, that I very much wanted to do the gene pool a service by removing this man from it, but I did not do so under duress.

"Under duress?" Duress of what?

Duress of the law, Your Honor; last time I checked, it's still illegal to give yammering loons a good killing...

[Subspace_Relay]

Back when I used to watch The People's Court, it always amused me how many people seemed to think "I didn't particularly like the price/terms but I didn't have any other reasonable/affordable option at the time so I signed/paid" was equivalent to "under duress". Most commonly, people tried to apply it to promissory notes ("but your honor, I was going to get kicked out of my apartment if my buddy didn't lend me the money, he wouldn't lend me the money unless I signed the note saying I'd pay him back in two months, so it assigned under duress and doesn't count" type of stuff) but I'm pretty sure I witness it applied to businesses in situations like this.

What I don't get is what he thought it would prove. I'm no legal scholar, but "under duress" usually seems to be used to invalidate contracts that would otherwise be legal had they not been signed under threat (like if a person's ex-wife threatened to put down the family dog unless they signed the family car). If this maroon were correct and you lacked either the authority to tow his car or you towed his car improperly, then whether or not he was "under duress" when he paid you doesn't matter one bit. The towing company's actions would have been illegal, therefore they wouldn't be entitled to payment for those actions.

[Sapphire Silk]

Here's the really funny part.

If he really wanted to show his unhappiness, all he had to do was write, "Paid under protest" on the slip when he signed it.

Of course, he still wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on, which he probably knew, but he thought if Argabarga wrote it, that it might change the odds in his favor.

After all, if Argabarga wrote, "Paid under protest and under duress" then he's essentially confessing to a crime.

[Mike Taylor]

I wonder if he tried this with his landlords?

[JustaCashier]

Him- We have a problem!

The only thing I hated more than that, during my years working for a parking company, was when, in a similar scenario, the SC would exclaim: "You have a problem!"

Made me wanna

Mike