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  • The great Xbox 360 disaster of Christmas 2008

    This is a rather epic tale of multiple SCs with a few hints of cursing out coworkers and a dash of Morons in management, just for good measure.

    Unlike other stories, this was not resolved in a day, or even a week. It took MONTHS to clean the mess up.

    So what happened?

    In a word: Chaos.

    Background

    Most gamers are familiar with the infamous Xbox 360 Red Ring of Death (RROD) error that plagued the system in its first several years of release. I worked at a games store pretty much non-stop from the console launch to late 2008 when our story takes place.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't until 2009 when Microsoft FINALLY started releasing consoles that were highly RROD resistant so you may be able to see where this is going.

    But to simply chalk up the 2008 disaster to Microsoft's crappy engineering would be oversimplifying things.

    The Story

    Video games always sell big during the holidays and consoles are no exception. A lot of systems go out the door in the months leading up to Christmas.

    Back in July, we might have had 20 Xbox 360s lying around for days waiting to sell. At holiday time, we can sometimes sell that many in a matter of HOURS. As a result, stock is usually tight. It's quite common for certain versions of consoles to sell out completely as Christmas nears.

    Now, our games store sells used games and consoles. People like this, it saves them money. Again notice the time frame here. Late 2008...the same time that the economic mess was going on and the stock market was plummeting faster than the temperatures in Toronto on a February morning. This meant people didn't have exactly have a fortune to spend on Christmas shopping that year. Hence they bought used systems. A LOT of used systems.

    And herein lies our main problem: Our games store accepted consoles for trade in, including broken units. So of course it was common for people to trade in RROD units that were otherwise little more than sleek looking paperweights. The units were then sent to a repair center to be fixed up so they could be resold.

    Unfortunately the repair center did an absolutely AWFUL job at repairing the consoles.

    The consoles would come three to a box, but instead of being boxed within a box like most consoles, these units were, for some reason I've never being able to figure out, packed in a kind of hard plastic case with a handle on top. Think of like a cheap see through plastic briefcase you can carry a game console in and you'll have an idea what I mean.

    Oh and did I mention the consoles were shipped with NO PACKING MATERIAL whatsoever?

    All of these things meant that these rebuilt 360 units were practically useless. I'm not lying when I say the failure rate on these things was astronomical. It was common that we would get 10 units shipped and 8 would come back defective. That's the kind of failure rate that would cost people their jobs in other companies. Every time I went into the back room I'd see a stack of 360s usually six or seven units high piled up in our “send for repair” bin.

    Over and over and over we saw the same thing happening...

    Customer buys a rebuilt 360, only to bring it back days later saying it didn't work (typically due to RROD).
    Console gets swapped out, usually for another rebuilt unit (because it's all we had in stock)
    Replacement unit RRODs, customer returns again.
    By this point, it's either yet ANOTHER replacement, or a refund followed by a reaming out about our shoddy products.

    Of course we all know that it's aggravating to return something multiple times. Try dealing with SCs of this nature multiple times a day (sometimes multiple times an hour) for weeks on end and you get an idea of how burned out I was by the time New Year's rolled around.

    From about the middle of October to the end of December it was non stop. Every few days, a new shipment of rebuilt units, every time the vast majority would be returned to us within days if not hours.

    It was so frustrating. Clearly the bean counters realized how high the failure rate on these things was and how much money was being spent endlessly shipping them back and forth from the stores to the repair center and vice-versa so why didn't somebody DO something??

    One of my coworkers at the time didn't help matters by “accidentally” reselling a few consoles that should have been marked as not in working order and sent back. He did this because he could tack on upsells to these sales and boost his numbers. He was eventually caught, but ended up keeping his job.

    As for the Morons in management suck. Not only was corporate apparently deaf to our repeated complaints about the shoddy repair work on the 360s and the customer headaches it was causing, they actually had the audacity to blame US for a drop in customer satisfaction ratings. Well now, gee I wonder what could be making the customers so upset...hmmm...

    It eventually got the point where I did something I don't usually like doing: I recommended customers NOT buy from us. If they came in looking for a used 360 and all we had were rebuilt units I would inform of them of this, but then promptly say something to the effect of: “Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable selling you console because we've had a lot of problems with them. If you still want it that's fine but I'm warning you there's a good chance you'll end up bringing it right back.”

    This stopped a lot of sales, it also no doubt saved us a lot of customer service headaches. Normally my manager would not condone such things, but she was as frustrated by the whole deal as the rest of us and didn't mind that we tried to prevent customers from buying those consoles.

    Of course we had more fun the week after Christmas because obviously some of these consoles were purchased as Christmas gifts and not used until that time. So we had yet another wave of defective systems being returned and unfortunately at this point in time we had practically nothing to replace them with. Some customers got new consoles instead, some got refunds, some we had to send to other locations of ours for replacement systems. It was a mess. Of course not everybody had proper receipts which further compounded matters.

    Predictably things died down in the new year, though the quality of the rebuilt units didn't improve. One slow day, I decided to send an e-mail to the head of the repair center. In it, I (politely) vented about the 360 issues that were going on and simply requested that greater attention needed to be given in properly repairing the systems. I identified myself in the email, I had no problem accepting responsibility for it.

    Imagine my surprise when the repair center guy actually calls the store a few days later to talk to me about the email! But that was nothing compared to the next surprise I received: The repair center guy flat out told me they didn't know how to properly fix RROD systems and that's why all the problems were happening.

    Yes, REALLY.

    My mind was blown at that point.

    Surely he hadn't kept this secret from everyone else in the company. I mean he must have told someone else before telling a lowly store lackey like me...right?

    I certainly hope so. My guess is he told someone repeatedly and was ignored or brushed off...at least for awhile.

    By that summer it seemed like someone in the company had gotten the message in some form. The failure rate on the rebuilt consoles had dropped and they were now being shipped in proper boxes rather than those plastic abominations (which, I might add caused myself and my coworkers a great deal of unnecessary finger bleeds).

    But I suspect the real reason for the improvement was when the company decided to no longer accept RROD systems for trade.

    What a great solution! If only someone would have thought of that sooner...

    I've never had another experience that was as wide ranging and caused so many SCs as the great Holiday Horror of 2008 and I sincerely never hope to again.
    "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

  • #2
    They sent out emails recently saying to take RROD systems again....

    Comment


    • #3
      I worked at GameStore until early 2008 (I left on my own for a job that paid better), so I missed out on the deluge of bad refurbs, but I can attest to much of what CC2 has said, as I got to deal with a smaller-scale deluge of people returning a bunch of brand new craptastic 360's >_<

      Long story short: I lived in the New Orleans area during Katrina, and still do. I was working for the first game store to really properly re-open, in a popular location. The upshot: We rebuilt, and reopened the Sunday before Thanksgiving -- this served as out Halo 3 "launch" day because of the storm (yaaaay). As a result, we combined Back Friday with all of this. NOT. FUN. I know for a fact that the Store Manager, who was on salary, worked at least 80 hours a week for a good five weeks.

      From what I know of Corporate there: I believe 100% that they would have taken the repair guy's reports and ignored them completely in the name of making "potential profit" from all of the trade-ins. Ditto the crappy packaging, as well. They were a prime example of a "pennywise and pound foolish" company.

      Midnight: If they either have the means to fix RROD's, or, better yet, just send the damn things to Microsoft, then I could understand. If not....eh.
      Last edited by EricKei; 10-16-2012, 01:36 AM. Reason: got ninja'd
      "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
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      Comment


      • #4
        Ooooh, I have great sympathy!

        Went through something similar with a Sharp 5 disc, top tray stereo system. This system was so predictable in what was wrong that all I needed was to know the model..

        SC: Sharp Stereo, the one with the tray system on top.
        Me: CD spinning but doesn't play?
        SC: How did you know?!

        What was happening was that due to a major design flaw, the laser assembly ARM wouldn't raise. Needless to say, that after the first month of it being sold, the laser assembly was already on back order for three months out on sending. Didn't matter... the new laser assemblies had the SAME DAMN DESIGN FLAW, anyways.* So, we'd "repair"** them, send them back to the customer and, bam, next month the unit would be back.

        Took corporate the better part of a year and a half (due to manufacturer warranty taking the tab for the first three months... and the lost of money on the service contracts) to just tell us to have customers with that unit to pick out a new one. One that wasn't a Sharp.

        *Sharp admitted they didn't know how to fix the flaw in the assemblies. Yep, our parts manager called Sharp to see what was up and how to fix it.. and the poor rep had to admit they couldn't.

        ** Arrrggghhhh, this is where the SC suck comes in. Some people didn't want to wait that long and who can blame them. But taking it out on me? Uncool. It's not like I could simply pull the part out my backside. If I could, I certainly wouldn't have been working at a small time repair center for a major retail chain. It was so bad, I gave only one warning to cut out cursing at me before I disconnected the call. (Calling me a c&nt, as opposed to just saying, "Well damn it." That sort of thing.)

        Hmm.. remembering it seems to have set off some post retail traumatic stress syndrome. I'll be in the corner, rocking, reminding myself that I don't work there anymore....
        If I make no sense, I apologize. I'm constantly interrupted by an actual toddler.

        Comment


        • #5
          I really want a a shirt that says "I survived the 360 disaster of '09". (No, the major issues of the 360 were NOT fixed in March 09, that's just when Microsoft realized denying them was not helping them. It took a full year and a half to fix that mess)

          And yes, I did. Let me set the background for you...

          Company and Microsoft had arranged for a HUGE promo for the 360. Advertisements indicating we were the go to place in Canada for them, promos everywhere, and of course Merchandise coming out of the ying-yang. The big promo was a package deal of the system with a free game included which was packaged at Microsoft's distribution center BEFORE they are shipped out to stores. (this is important) The store I worked at was getting these systems in buy the metric ton (no exaggeration either, I think we shortened the lifespan on the forklift simply getting them out of the way) and there was to be no expected shortage.

          Before the launch of this promo, the Microsoft Rep personally informed me after I asked him about it that the Microsoft Warranty was in full effect (aka if they have ANY issue with it to send it into Microsoft directly for free repair) and full replacement directly from Microsoft of any damaged, unrepairable product. This message came from very high up in the console division.

          Now did I forget to mention that the RROD wasn't the only issue? That if the console wasn't upright it could scratch a nice groove in the disk? See, we weren't told of THAT particular issue either.

          And queue the rush. Consoles were going out very fast. Sadly, they were also coming back quickly as well. Now the procedure should have been:

          -Customer has issue, calls Microsoft Customer support
          -MCS sends out packaging for the console and free copy of the game in the event of scratched disk (apparently they knew of it)
          -Customer sends console out for repair
          -Customer gets repaired console back.

          Simple right? Well yes if not for one minor caveat: MCS was directed to avoid having to permit warranty repair/replacement. So the procedure went like this:

          -Customer brings system in to store, store informs them to call MCS
          -Customer informs store staff that they did and were told they would NOT repair/replace and that was the store's responsibility. Additional told that the game would NOT be replaced because it was packaged at the store level.
          -Staff phones MCS, gets told same crap. Staff informs MCS that no, directive from their very own company is that MCS is to handle issues, not retailer. MCS sticks to guns.
          -Staff gets out new console for replacement from non-promo stock, promo stock for scratched disks or retail copy of game and non-promo console if customer refuses promo version (we were having 2-3 returns with the same issue so I'm not blaming the customer for refusing)

          The end result was that the store I was at alone had over 1000 units shipped over the course of the promo with a roughly 30% failure rate (a level I don't think any major console has EVER had and we were sending out full skids of faulty consoles). Factoring in all the non-promo replacements I'm sure both Company and Microsoft took a massive hit over the promo, I know our store did. The only reason I didn't kill the Microsoft rep (nice guy actually) was that he was just as frustrated with MCS as we were, if not more so.

          Now after all this, do you know how ecstatic I was to find out that Nintendo Wii (with the lowest failure rate of that particular generation) had written instruction inside the box that says in Big bold lettering on orange paper that "If you have an issue with your Nintendo Wii, DO NOT take it into the store you purchased it from but to contact Nintendo directly"? See, this is why I support Nintendo. They take responsibility for their actions. (Microsoft Customer Support even rejected a repair request on a 360 saying that the system shorted out from being plugged into a filtered power bar as opposed to a wall outlet.)
          Last edited by lordlundar; 10-16-2012, 04:07 PM.
          I AM the evil bastard!
          A+ Certified IT Technician

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth lordlundar View Post
            (Microsoft Customer Support even rejected a repair request on a 360 saying that the system shorted out from being plugged into a filtered power bar as opposed to a wall outlet.)
            And what's to bet if it was plugged into a wall they would claim it was shorted due to a power surge and that it should have been plugged into a surge protector strip -.-''
            Violets are blue,
            Roses are red,
            I bequeath to thee...
            A boot to the head >_>

            Comment


            • #7
              Of course, the other consoles have had their share of problems too.

              How many Wiis did you have returned when they wouldn't play Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or any other dual-layer game?

              Then again, Nintendo both offered to 'fix' (read: replace) any console that couldn't, as well as made sure very few future games were dual-layer (which, being only DVD capacity, made Wii titles the smallest of any of the three this generation).

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth Tiberious View Post
                Of course, the other consoles have had their share of problems too.

                How many Wiis did you have returned when they wouldn't play Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or any other dual-layer game?

                Then again, Nintendo both offered to 'fix' (read: replace) any console that couldn't, as well as made sure very few future games were dual-layer (which, being only DVD capacity, made Wii titles the smallest of any of the three this generation).
                PS3 had their problems as well. Something about the disk reading heads being misaligned, coming loose, or somesuch. I've not had it crop up on mine, so I havn't looked into it much.

                I can forgive Microsoft the RRoD issues, as that was a long term use issue, which doesn't always show up using accelerated wear testing techniques. Heck, I've seen a lot of computers with like heat issues. They took care of me both times I had the issue crop up, my my turn around was only 3-4 weeks, and free. I'm not sure what repair center the OP's store was using, but the one Microsoft had me send mine to never gave me a problem. The first replacement lasted over a year before RR-ing again, and I still use the second replacement to this day.
                The Rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich. Ditto the Poor.
                "Hy kan tell dey is schmot qvestions, dey is makink my head hurt."
                Hoc spatio locantur.

                Comment


                • #9
                  All of these things meant that these rebuilt 360 units were practically useless.
                  At my last job we didn't sell refurb items, but we did send new items in for repair however if needed. And of course we sent customer items off too.

                  And what you described is why we had to test everything that came back from repair before sending it back to the individual department. There's been a couple of times where we've actually had to turn around and ship items directly back because something was still wrong with the unit. and when shit like that happens, customers aren't happy... which means they bring stuff in less, and we get less hours.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Quoth Tiberious View Post
                    Of course, the other consoles have had their share of problems too.

                    How many Wiis did you have returned when they wouldn't play Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or any other dual-layer game?

                    Then again, Nintendo both offered to 'fix' (read: replace) any console that couldn't, as well as made sure very few future games were dual-layer (which, being only DVD capacity, made Wii titles the smallest of any of the three this generation).
                    Very true, but the PS3's failure rate was about average (roughly 6%), the Wii even lower and The Dual Layer issue most of the time was resolved with a software update. Put next to the 360's fluctuating failure rate of 15-30%, a full four months to even admit it was a problem then a year and a half to actually fix it meanwhile still trying to weasel out of doing repair work makes the other companies look borderline saintly in comparison.
                    I AM the evil bastard!
                    A+ Certified IT Technician

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                    • #11
                      I worked at Game Store at about the same time. I would be very honest with the customers, open up the stockroom door, and show them the stack of consoles waiting to go back.

                      "These are the ones that were returned this week. Buy the warranty."

                      Near 100% attach rate, and they walked in with smiles when they had their RRoD.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth Tiberious View Post
                        Of course, the other consoles have had their share of problems too.

                        How many Wiis did you have returned when they wouldn't play Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or any other dual-layer game?

                        Then again, Nintendo both offered to 'fix' (read: replace) any console that couldn't, as well as made sure very few future games were dual-layer (which, being only DVD capacity, made Wii titles the smallest of any of the three this generation).
                        I did see a few Wii consoles with those problems but it was barely a drop in the bucket compared to the defective PS3 and 360 units we'd get back.

                        Nintendo in my opinion actually builds the best stuff around. I still have my original NES and SNES which both work (even though the SNES is missing some of its external casing). I have an original Game Boy that still works. Heck I even sold my Virtual Boy earlier this year that worked perfectly from the day I had it. My Nintendo 64 is still trucking along and I've had my Wii over 5 years now without a single issue.

                        The Nintendo console I've had the most problems with is the DS. I'm sure part of that is because kids tend to beat them up a little more than other systems, but I myself have been through three and I take care of my stuff. For whatever reason, the DS lite in particular seems to be susceptible to a lot of problems.
                        "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

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                        • #13
                          That's odd cause my DS lite always worked well for me. Same pink one for 3 and a half years until I sold it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            All of my non-disk systems still work-- Vectrex, Atari 2600, Channel F, Pong... (and on and on)

                            Guess what the failure rate on my disk systems is!

                            Three digit number starting with 1.
                            Why do they make Superglue but not Batglue?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Quoth CrazedClerkthe2nd View Post
                              Nintendo in my opinion actually builds the best stuff around.
                              And, IMHO customer service that's light-years ahead of both Sony and Microsoft combined.

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