People Unclear on Many Concepts

[Dips]

Aaaaack!

We are dealing with these customer who act like the mere fact of buying software includes whatever extras they decide they are entitled to.

So I've been spending the last week attempting to bring their expectations a little closer to reality.

They're not getting it. All the time they've been complaining that the time difference (they're in Australia) is making it impossible to talk to me by phone.

As if the facts will change magically if they can argue with me live? Yeah, NOT!

What it boils down to is three basic problems:

1. They want more than the paid for.

They bought an update and, even though we explained in super detail what it included (and what it didn't), they feel that they should have gotten things that were not included. Too bad I was the one who answered their questions during the sale and documented that I said (and wrote) "no" when asked if it included x. They keep asking anyway.

2. They are trying to outwit the instructions instead of following them.

Their IT person wants to deploy our product using a method and third-party product we don't support. Hey, we can't physically stop them from trying but we aren't going to be able to help them if they fuck it up. I've told them this many times. They keep asking anyway. Too bad the answer won't change.

Note: I have a feeling that they are angling for a customized installation package just for them. Considering how much they dithered and dickered over the price of the update they purchased, I've declined to take the hint on that. Because custom software will cost money. Many times more than the update they just purchased. They won't afford it.

3. They are now trying to blame us for the fact that they are behind schedule in deploying the update.

Has nothing to do with them wasting time asking us to provide features which aren't included and trying to get us agree that they shoud ignore the instructions.

At least this was easy to address politely. I simply reassured them that we have many other customers with even bigger licenses that have had no trouble deploying our product using the methods outlined on our site and they are very happy. I told them there's no reason to believe they'll have any problem doing the same.

Note the heavily disguised messages between the lines there.

[PepperElf]

reminds me of when customers say "I spent all this money and i don't even get <service package>???"

Cos the answer is... "No, if you wanted <service package> you would have had to pay for it. You only paid for the basic unit, which you received."

[EricKei]

"I spent all this money and i don't even get <service package>???"

Why is it that the people who opt for the cheapest packages, getting discounts already, are the ones who say these sorts of things? >_<

Back at AccountingFirm, we were licensed resellers for QB/PT...BY FAR the most popular, and cheapest accounting packages on the planet. They started at around $200 for the (non-free) basic version and went up to $7 grand (less 25% or whatever our current promo discount was) for something like a 40-user version of their highest-end product that included unlimited tech support (from the manufacturer, not from us) and the direct line to Tier-2 support.

Certain of the the people spending $200-500 were usually the most demanding, and seemed to expect software, installs, network assistance, etc, included for free...the thing is, these sorts of things are "standard issue/included" in the next tier of software beyond what we offered. Said packages, at the time, began at around $7-10 grand for the software alone, and as much as $2-5 grand PER MONTH for "maintenance" (autopatching, tech support from trained accountants who were also tech-support types, payroll, and the right to continue using the program) o_O These are meant for places where the accounting department alone employs 50 or more people. The most expensive stuff we sold was for places that employed 50-100 people in the entire company.

[fireheart]

Oh crap. I swear we aussies aren't all like this!

[Seshat]

Dips gets to see one of our best almost every day, fireheart.

... or at least, every time you post.

[aulocksmith]

Like fireheart, I promise that not all of us drop-dead drongos.

[Dips]

Why is it that the people who opt for the cheapest packages, getting discounts already, are the ones who say these sorts of things? >_<

I dunno, but that's true. These folks didn't even purchase the standard update. They found it too expensive and opted to update with *more* restrictive license terms to save a few bucks. That's why were documented it very carefully when we explained the restrictions.

Oh crap. I swear we aussies aren't all like this!

I know, hun. I only mentioned it because of the time zone difference.

Which brings up another suck. We don't charge for support beyond the cost of the software which includes support during our business hours.

We have 13 full-time and part-time employees now. We'd have to nearly double our staff to cover support overnight and on weekends.

And these new hires certainly aren't going to work for free! Not to mention the training, admin and benefit costs.

When customers bring it up every now and then, we have a variaton of this conversation:

"Why can't you have someone there if I need help at 3:00 AM?"

"We don't charge for technical support during our business hours at the moment. If we hired people to answer the phones 24/7 we'd probably have to double our software prices or charge a few hundred per incident for phone support to pay for it. Is 24 hour phone support worth that much to you?"

"NO! That's ridiculous!"

"I absolutely agree with you. Which is why we don't offer 24 hour phone support right now."

The non-sucky ones get it and drop it at that point.

The sucky ones? Not so much. No reasoning with them and I don't bother arguing. I just tell them we'll consider it (yeah right! for a millisecond! ) and change the subject.

Edit to add: I want to clarify that I have absolutely no problem with customers under budget constraints and didn't want to come across differently. Most of our customers do have budget constraints which is one of the reasons we try to keep our costs and, therefore their costs, as low as possible. It's one of the reasons we worked with *this* customer to give them an update option that worked within their budget. But we won't be around to help anyone if we allow ourselves to go bankrupt.

[dalesys]

Dips gets to see one of our best almost every day, fireheart...

Isn't that what we called "Reverse Video" in the BBS days?

... and "That tape over the webcam isn't working." now.

[PepperElf]

Like fireheart, I promise that not all of us drop-dead drongos.

O no worries on that. That kind of suckiness I can assure you knows no borders.


I wish it did though. ... In a land called Sucktopia where the borders are one-way only... you can enter but you can't leave.

[sms001]

Note the heavily disguised messages between the lines there.

Let me see if I can translate.

I simply reassured them that we have many other customers with even bigger licenses

"You have no hand." [Seinfeld reference.] "Coercion, intimidation, and threats will make me chuckle quietly over my coffee when I read your emails, but best not to even attempt them."

have had no trouble deploying our product

"It's simple. Follow the instructions for the support level you paid for. Cheapass."

using the methods outlined on our site

"Not whatever you think will be easier for you but are unwilling to pay for."

they are very happy.

"You should be too."

there's no reason to believe they'll have any problem doing the same.

"Annnnnddddd....... back to #1."


[Note: After a varied career in Food Service, Retail, and Tech Support, I speak fluent Obfuscationese. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! Incorrect translations may result in lather rinse repeatitis, whiny poorly calculated time difference phone calls, wall to head dermal abrasion and hair loss.]

[LesserSouthernFroglet]

As anothe Aussie I can assure you, it ain't that hard to calculate out time differences, particularly if you know the city you're calling. Sheesh, I did it a couple of weeks ago, and it was daylight on both sides of the Pacific Ocean.

Sucky Customer is sucky.

And am I correct in suspecting SC was actually buying for a government dept? Sounds like the type of suckery I've experienced working for these clowns...

[smileyeagle1021]

Back at AccountingFirm, we were licensed resellers for QB/PT...BY FAR the most popular, and cheapest accounting packages on the planet. They started at around $200 for the (non-free) basic version

Would this be the basic version that leaves no audit trail whatsoever and has no internal controls against mistakes or even, god forbid, fraud?
If that's the one I think it is, my mom's company takes delight in telling their clients that insist on using it for their personal business (why someone who is hiring a professional accounting firm would use that software in the first place is a mystery to me) that they will receive zero audit support and will have to pay for the company to redo all their financials for them so when the company gets audited, they can pass it.

[EricKei]

(note - The AccountingFirm time is very much in the past tense)

The Audit Trail has nothing to do with being audited, nor with keeping people honest. It "audits" in the sense that it records every completed/cleared transaction that takes place in the file, including deleted ones. NOTE -- non-posting transactions are NOT recorded (estimates, etc) because they do not actually affect any accounts.

The basic/free-or-dirt-cheap version are the "For Dummies" ones (extreme restrictions on creating Items/accounts, etc), and I would not recommend them for anything bigger than personal finances. The $200ish one (at the time) was QB pro or PT "standard". IIRC, they had Audit Trail but they may or may not have been accessible.

Fun Fact -- Every version of QB short of Enterprise (uses SQL Server, iirc) and ALL versions of PT use the same files -- the Accountant's Edition of either can read and manipulate lower-level files without forcibly upgrading them to the more expensive version. Invaluable tech support tool. We also used it for things which were impossible in lower versions, as the changes stick (e.g.: QB Basic/SS cannot create Service Items (or was it Non-Inventory Items??) -- open a SS file in Accountant, create the items, and switch back to SS: the items will be there and usable)

At least for QB, as of...I wanna say year 2008 or later (?), it became impossible to turn of off the Audit Trail or remove anything from it by any means short of using Clean Up Data (read: purge and condense). To the best of my recollection, however, even that would simply make it so that the Audit Trail was viewable, but purged transactions would simply not be "clickable/no way to "zoom to the transaction" because it's not there anymore. In older editions, yes, Cleanup ("Condense" for v2000 and prior) would actually delete the AT, and it was possible to simply turn it off at that time. Keep in mind that this process is NOT something you can do accidentally -- no keyboard shortcut for it, Admin only, nobody else can be logged in, and it warns you multiple times what you're about to do....and it takes FOREVER, even if the data is local.

As for mistakes ... ? Really just the audit trail. Not sure how a program can prevent mistakes, EXCEPT for the fact that both of them force you to use double-entry accounting, and they at least try to facilitate GAAP. In ooold versions of either, however, it was possible to make one-sided entries. The existence of such entries in modern versions will actually break/corrupt the file, for those who have grandfathered them in. As for fraud: Really just the AT, afaik. While even $200 feels like a lot to me for a computer program , for accounting software, that's chicken feed.

The business gets what it pays for....but heck, we were willing to sell it to them and fix it when it went kaboom. ~_~ These progs being cheap are part of why they're overwhelmingly popular. The ones that babysit you start at ten to twenty times the price.

On that note .. QB doesn't go boom nearly as often, but it also had fewer built-in options with which to fix said issues. PT has really good built-in fixer options (must be enabled via the command line, for good reason), but it also NEEDS them more often. It's also more susceptible to network hiccups/configuration errors and just plain going kaboom.

Sadly, PT has a long standing glitch when doing a year-end Close, which was still in effect as of two years ago, where a critical, "HAHAHA YOU BE F$%@ED, SUCKA! Delete the file and restore that backup we just forced you to make" message would always be immediately followed by one that read "The Close has completed succesfully". The first message was accurate. We got plenty of calls from people who assumed the opposite and didn't ask anyone about it...Made plenty of money, too. Symptoms were transactions that had a zero "total" on the document itself, but added up in reports, transactions in non-existent periods, and the plain-text errorlog file swelling up to hundreds of MB in size when it should be more like a few hundred K. Worst one I ever got was nearly a gig. Of PLAIN TEXT. The only solutions were data repair ($700+ if yer lucky), which fixes the corruption going forward and may or may not fix the actual issue -- but it will give you a list of affected transactions that all need to be double checked...OR restore your last good backup and reenter everything by hand. Easiest one I ever did had to reenter 2 weeks worth of data. The near-GB one? Several YEARS o_O