we don't support adsl modems anymore

[Casino Jockey]

we have stopped offering ADSL modem config support at work now. we had a client who brought a modem from us, and kept coming back complaining it would not work, and would not pay the money for a home visit.

it became such a hassle we refunded him & sent him away (i know, i know... i don't agree eather) but now when we sell an ADSL modem we tell customers we don't do any config support and will need to contact there ISP.
i think i'll have someone in about a week bitching they were not told this when i refuse them help.

[Polenicus]

Reminds me of a call I once took while working for a 3-letter ISP that's not AOL.

Now, were were Dial-up support. We DID have broadband through a couple of cable and ADSL providers, but that was a seperate support line. We had never, EVER provided service for ISDN modems. EVER.

This one customer called up, and could not get his ISDN modem to connect. Well... derr, we're 56k dial up, we don't support ISDN. We never have supported ISDN. We never WILL, because it's a dead technology.

Do you think I could convince him of that?

He insisted that he had always connected with this ISDN modem, that we supported it, and he needed my help to reconfigure this ISDN modem to make it work. There was no supervisor available to pawn this guy opff on, and he kept insisting that I just 'check my support system' for the ISDN numbers. Nothing I said could convince this guy, or make him go away. He wasn't nasty, just incredibly stubborn. He kept on talking about how his connect speeds sucked, and we should work on improving our ISDN service, and that he loved our software, but if we didn't do soemthing about his frequent disconnects, slow speeds, etc we could lose our entire ISDN market, which he was sure would be devestating for us.

The worst part? He CONNECTED. THAT kind of broke my brain for a bit. He thanked me and hung up, and I didn't even manage my closing spiel. I just kinda sat there with a broken brain. Turns out my sup (The bastard) had recorded the call, and was listening in. He gave me a break while he and the other Tier 2 techs puzzled that one over. They decided this guy must have an ISDN modem with a backup 56k (Or slower) that connected when it didn't detect an ISDN server. Since (I believe) you need 2 phone lines to make ISDN work, and this guy most definitely didn't have that, this seems the most likely option. I had tried to tell him as much on the call, but he simply wouldn't listen to a thing I said.

It was frustrating and confusing and it hurt my brain. If he had just given me the benefit of the doubt, assumed that since I was a Tier 2 tech in the internet company he was trying to connect to, I MIGHT have some idea what I was talking about, I could have gotten him connected through his built-in 56k, which would have been a much faster, more robust connection, and he could have tossed his klunky old ISDN modem.

[smileyeagle1021]

ok, asking the stupid question... what the heck is ISDN?

[Andara Bledin]

ok, asking the stupid question... what the heck is ISDN?

http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/...o_doc/isdn.htm

Google is your friend.

^-.-^

[Captain Trips]

http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/...o_doc/isdn.htm

Google is your friend.

^-.-^

Um, yeah, but that gets rather technical. Let's put it more simply. ISDN is a technology that, by using more specialized equipment and phone lines than standard dialup, can give you up to twice the connection speed as the best standard telephone-line modem.

Yeah, it's pretty much "old tech" these days, replaced by DSL or Cable Modem, except in those areas not covered by either of these "newer" technologies. We do have a few of our centres still on ISDN, but are working hard to get them to DSL if possible, or if not possible then onto at T1 line.

Now, I can hear you say "what's a T1 line?" Well, it makes DSL look like dialup. One T1 line uses the equivalent of (I believe) 7 ordinary telephone lines to give a very fast and reliable connection. It makes ISDN look like modem-by-smoke-signals! (And it isn't the fastest out there! T3 uses 4 T1's, and OC3 uses a number of T3's! Of course, that gets you into the thousands of dollars a month club, not needed for your average home user.)

This guy on the ISDN needs to get into the 21st century and get DSL -- or better yet, Cable (which is much faster and more reliable than DSL!)

[Andara Bledin]

This guy on the ISDN needs to get into the 21st century and get DSL -- or better yet, Cable (which is much faster and more reliable than DSL!)

First off, not everybody can get DSL. I live in a rather largish beach city in southern California, and if I didn't also order their VOIP, I couldn't get DSL at my apartment. They only ran the extra cable because of the package. Even so, the techs (the ones who know how it all works) are shocked we get anything decent speed-wise.

Second, cable does not automatically trump DSL. We have DSL (ADSL, technically, but it's never really seemed to matter), and even with how much line it takes to reach us, we still get down speeds rivalling T1 speeds. And having had our local cable's internet service, I can tell you that it sucked ass. Then again, we have Charter, here, and from what friends and coworkers say, their local service still sucks ass, tv and internet both.

DSL generally has a fixed rate based on the setting determined by the provider, and the line distance and quality. Cable has a higher top end, but users are grouped in segments, and one particularly heavy user, or just heavy traffic within the segment, can have a notable effect on everyone in that segment.

In related news, it looks like the FCC might be leaning against Comcast in the recent throttling brouhaha.
Link to TechSpot article with comments made by FCC chairman Kevin Martin.

^-.-^

[Dev3383]

Haha, i have had that exact call

i was rather surprised as we have NEVER offered ISDN lines :P i took the approach of having him read me the model off the external modem and googled it to find it's specs and even a example of the setup which had a option for dialup! :P

he called back acouple months latter when the old girl smoked and we sold him ADSL :P

My comp just got started in ADSL so to get word around we offer a 3meg/768 plan in a area where cable internet isn't even avail. not even a T1 can beat that kinda download speed (as long as your close to the CO).

[Bliss]

Btw ISDN has left some painful legacies, even in countries like mine where ISDN was never used at all or installed. Some old equipment like some older videoconf machines we've had to fight with, Insist on using isdn's ugly addressing instead of plain old IP. So we've had to throw in a translation trick with a few routers and fixed routes, to make these old things work... ugh...

[Pedersen]

Just saw this, and must chime in to clear up a few glaring technical errors.

ISDN is a technology that, by using more specialized equipment and phone lines than standard dialup, can give you up to twice the connection speed as the best standard telephone-line modem.

This is right, up to a point. ISDN runs over normal telephone lines, so service can be had in places where DSL cannot. More on that in a moment.

Yeah, it's pretty much "old tech" these days, replaced by DSL or Cable Modem, except in those areas not covered by either of these "newer" technologies.

When I was paying attention to DSL, the range limits for DSL were 20,000 feet. That means that no more than 20,000 feet of wire could exist between your DSL modem and the phone company's central office. ISDN has much longer ranges. And T1 is, basically, a guarantee of a different type of service, so the phone company will make it work. Of course, they will charge you as much as it takes to accomplish this goal.

Now, I can hear you say "what's a T1 line?" Well, it makes DSL look like dialup. One T1 line uses the equivalent of (I believe) 7 ordinary telephone lines to give a very fast and reliable connection.

Actually, T1 is a single cable divided up into 24 channels. Each of those channels is a 64Kbps connection.This means that a T1 is 1.536Mbps in both directions simultaneously. Yes, this really does matter. Oh, and each channel can carry 8 voice conversations simultaneously. So, one T1 can carry 192 phone lines worth of conversation simultaneous.

Furthermore, a T1 can be split, so that a certain number of channels are for voice, and others for data.

DSL and Cable are both highly variable in their speeds. Depending on your package, your range to Central Office (for DSL), the level of service used by your neighborhood (for cable), your speed varies. This is why the phone company and the cable company will sell you package for speeds up to a point. For instance, 768Kbps download, 128Kbps upload, and those are the maximums you will see. Quite often, your actual speed will be less than that.

Oh, and notice the discrepancy between download and upload? In that example, you will be able to receive 6 times faster than you can send. This doesn't make much difference usually, but can matter in cases of video conferencing (for example). Some P2P networks will also be impacted by this (any BitTorrent downloads, for example).

T1 will always have 1.536Mbps in both directions, period. You will only be limited by factors out of your control (next hop router, server you're connecting to, etc).

Finally, I've seen DSL lines which were faster than T1's. I've also seen cable modems which were faster than T1's. They're impressive, but they're not the dream connection for computer geeks they once were.

This guy on the ISDN needs to get into the 21st century and get DSL -- or better yet, Cable (which is much faster and more reliable than DSL!)

DSL versus Cable: Which one is faster and more reliable? Well, that depends highly on your local carriers, your distance to the Central Office, and how much you're willing to pay. So, it is not a universal truth that Cable beats DSL, nor that T1 beats both. It all depends on the needs of the person or company who is buying the connection.

[Bliss]

Will it make you wet pedersen if you knew at the ISP we have a few OC3s for backbone?

[Nekojin]

Just a quick note - ISDN modems that are built to use two lines on one modem are sometimes referred to as "shotgun" modems. I believe that one of the major modem producers had that as their products called the Shotgun, and the name stuck as a generic term.

[Pedersen]

Will it make you wet pedersen if you knew at the ISP we have a few OC3s for backbone?

Nah. I now work for a web hosting company which has major datacenters around the world, each of which has at least that.

So, definitely not doing much of anything for me. Sorry about that.

[Polenicus]

First off, not everybody can get DSL. I live in a rather largish beach city in southern California, and if I didn't also order their VOIP, I couldn't get DSL at my apartment. They only ran the extra cable because of the package. Even so, the techs (the ones who know how it all works) are shocked we get anything decent speed-wise.

Except... we did not, nor had we EVER offered ISDN (This happened only 3 years ago). This yahoo had, within the past year (That's how old his account was) bought an old ISDN modem, hooked it up, and trough some alchemy had actually made it WORK, albeit extremely poorly.

Then he refused to listen to us when we told him we didn't support ISDN, and wouldn't let us do ANYTHING to take this unnecessary, finnicky and technically INCOMPATIBLE piece of machinery out of the equation, and connect him with a much more reliable conventional 56k... which is all we OFFERED.

[PCGameGuy]

Just a quick note - ISDN modems that are built to use two lines on one modem are sometimes referred to as "shotgun" modems. I believe that one of the major modem producers had that as their products called the Shotgun, and the name stuck as a generic term.

If those are the modems I am remembering, they were actually two 56K modems together. Had to have an ISP that had the same equipment on the other end, and two phone lines, but they gave you close to ISDN rates at standard phone costs as opposed to usage-billed ISDN.

Of course, the number of ISPs that supported the dual modem was so small it was irrelevant, and then along came DSL and cable modems to put the final nail in.

I only remember because a friend ran a BBS and he set two of those up for his 'higher end' users. Since I knew where he lived and we swapped PC parts, I got included without the monthly fee.

[Andara Bledin]

Except... we did not, nor had we EVER offered ISDN (This happened only 3 years ago). This yahoo had, within the past year (That's how old his account was) bought an old ISDN modem, hooked it up, and trough some alchemy had actually made it WORK, albeit extremely poorly.

Oh, I undertsand that. I was responding to the urban-centric idea that anyone "with the 21st century" can get DSL or cable.

Hell, I live in a very urbanized area, and DSL (alone) is not offered for my apartment block, and the local Cable company is so bad, I'd be better of with satellite.

^-.-^