Can Win7 upgrade be installed on an XP system that doesn't actually start?

[Dreamstalker]

So I was originally planning to put XP Pro on Navi (at least at first; mom's used to it and I know all our peripherals/my games will actually work), but by the time I had enough spare cash to purchase it, Newegg decided to discontinue it. Understandable I guess...

Dad is giving me an upgrade copy of Win7 Home Premium. Navi technically has an existing XP install except it won't boot ("Windows did not shut down properly..."; Last Known Good does nothing). If I slave the hard drive I can see everything, so the drive/filesystem is okay. Will I be able to put an upgrade version on that drive (will it detect part of the existing install)? Alternately, I have a couple OEM recovery discs that might work; IIRC Win7 only needs to see that XP is there.

Being that it's a flavor of Home Edition, I'm a bit worried that anything requiring a compatibility mode (most of my games) just won't work at all.

[Daskinor]

wow I though I was the only person who named their computers 'navi'.

In a perfect world when upgrading the installer will dump all of the user directories into a Windows.Old folder on the C drive then delete everything else before installing. Its more of a convenience then a true backup. I would

If its a 32 bit version of windows 7 then you should be able to run most games. If it is a 64 bit version of Windows 7 you can run only 32bit programs. Allot of old games in the 95 era are 16 bit or use 16 bit installers.

For professional/ultimate versions of Windows 7, a free windows XP virtual machine install is available. That will run 99% of old windows games.

For DOS games, the windows 7 version of dos box is beyond awesome and I would use that.

[lordlundar]

I don't see why not. For an upgrade version, all the system needs is some proof of the previous version's existence. You can even select to do a clean install, which will do a format before the installation. The only real problem I can see is if you need to rebuild the system and you don't have a copy of XP floating around.

[Dreamstalker]

Most of my old Windows games are from the 95/98 era; I do have one that was designed for XP so might not work (go figure it´ś my favorite game; I have no idea if it can run under WINE or is one of those games that looks specifically for Windoze). I don´t think I need to rebuild completely (as I said XP is already there, it just won´t boot for whatever reason).

[lordlundar]

The only reason you would want to not use the clean install when upgrading from XP to Win7 is if you have some files on there that are irreplaceable that you must keep at all costs. Vital user generated content is the most obvious example.

I say this because the upgrade option really is only the best choice if you have done nothing but install XP before upgrading. Every program likes to get it's tendrils in some form and the upgrade option tends to ignore it, which causes problems. Considering that you can't boot up anyways, a key file is corrupted and the upgrade procedure probably won't fix it.

Basically, if you need to keep those files, transfer them off, then do a clean install. It's really the best option.

[fma_fanatic]

I don't see why not. For an upgrade version, all the system needs is some proof of the previous version's existence. You can even select to do a clean install, which will do a format before the installation. The only real problem I can see is if you need to rebuild the system and you don't have a copy of XP floating around.

So how would that work with a computer like mine? I bought it in a store and it didn't come with any system software. I have recovery discs I made, but if it's anything like the HP laptop I got, I'm not sure they'll work worth a damn.

[lordlundar]

So how would that work with a computer like mine? I bought it in a store and it didn't come with any system software. I have recovery discs I made, but if it's anything like the HP laptop I got, I'm not sure they'll work worth a damn.

best bet would be to run the recovery disks, then once everything has settled down (ie any issues are automatically resolved) put the Win 7 disk in and reboot. The install should (in theory) run fine.

[Dreamstalker]

After further research/picking the brain of my Networks tutor, I´ve been told that since my XP install seems to be corrupted, the upgrade might not work (the kernel might look for a specific piece of the install and there´s no way to tell what it needs or whether it´s complete). I do have an old OEM CD that as far as I know hasn´t been ´keyed´ to the original computer, so may try that.

(I do need the compatibility mode though, and if Home doesn´t have it like it claims on the box...)

[It's me]

The upgrade will install without XP being present.

I installed one of my Win7 upgrades on to a wiped disc and it worked........ I don't think it even needed the install key from the version of XP that used to be on the machine...

All versions of Win7 have an XP compatability mode, but only Pro has the ability to launch a stealth copy of Windows XP running on a virtual machine and use that to run older programs.

[roothorick]

Dad is giving me an upgrade copy of Win7 Home Premium. Navi technically has an existing XP install except it won't boot ("Windows did not shut down properly..."; Last Known Good does nothing). If I slave the hard drive I can see everything, so the drive/filesystem is okay. Will I be able to put an upgrade version on that drive (will it detect part of the existing install)? Alternately, I have a couple OEM recovery discs that might work; IIRC Win7 only needs to see that XP is there.

Can't hurt to try. Worst case scenario, you'll now have a non-working Win7 install and a transferrable Win7 key with which you're legally entitled to trying again.

Being that it's a flavor of Home Edition, I'm a bit worried that anything requiring a compatibility mode (most of my games) just won't work at all.

I thought Home Premium had compatibility options, and it was Home Basic that was stripped?

I do have an old OEM CD that as far as I know hasn´t been ´keyed´ to the original computer, so may try that.

That's actually not how it works. OEM XP CDs are "keyed" to a certain BIOS value (a certificate in the DMI tables, IIRC) when they are pressed at the factory. That CD will then install a legitimate, fully validated system (even passes WGA without modification) on any computer that has that BIOS value present.

The new trick for XP piracy is to make a modified OEM CD where the cert on the disk is replaced with one that matches your system. (Nearly every BIOS has something suitable sitting around, even servers sold with Linux preinstalled and retail motherboards that are sold B2C without processors. On top of that, there's tools to inject certs into certain brands of BIOS, so a system that this trick doesn't work on is exceedingly rare.)

If you really want to get a working XP install, your best bet is to find an OEM CD with the same branding as your computer, and use the appropriate key given here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb457078.aspx

Assuming the computer shipped with XP (and very posssibly even if it didn't), that'll give you a fully validated, working XP install, and you can install WGA and MSSE on it no problem.

[Dreamstalker]

Navi's a homebrew, the original XP install was actually an upgrade version (I used an old Win98 disc to get it on there). I'm assuming the reason XP no worky is because it's looking for hardware that isn't there (had to replace the motherboard, decided to upgrade my graphics card and powersupply while I was at it).

Eh, I'll give it a shot.

[roothorick]

Navi's a homebrew, the original XP install was actually an upgrade version (I used an old Win98 disc to get it on there). I'm assuming the reason XP no worky is because it's looking for hardware that isn't there (had to replace the motherboard, decided to upgrade my graphics card and powersupply while I was at it).

Eh, I'll give it a shot.

Yeah, motherboard swap will hose ANY Windows install. It can throw Linux for a loop as well, but since Linux has a simpler driver architecture you can usually get it going again with a rescue CD and a kernel recompile / config editing. Windows.... I still don't know a way to get it to take a new motherboard short of reformatting the thing. Repair doesn't do jack.

I'd give you specifics about the modified OEM CD method, but piracy is kinda frowned upon here... Try the Win7 upgrade as-is, and if it doesn't work, shell out for a retail license, or wave the Jolly Roger.

[lordlundar]

That's actually not how it works. OEM XP CDs are "keyed" to a certain BIOS value (a certificate in the DMI tables, IIRC) when they are pressed at the factory. That CD will then install a legitimate, fully validated system (even passes WGA without modification) on any computer that has that BIOS value present.

<looks at open platform OEM XP copy used for XP and Win7 dual boot system>

Really? News to me.

For the track record, open platform OEMs are the same as retail versions, just without the retail packaging or documentation for beginners. Those types are sent to companies who use them as a base for their packaged disks which are little more than image disks with a custom install overlay (sometimes not even that, one I had just used Symantec Ghost for it and didn't bother to modify it). Those also tend to also be called OEM disks though. Open platform OEMs aren't usually meant to be sold to the general public but if you look, you can find them, particularly when a new OS comes out and the old one is starting to be phased out.

[Dreamstalker]

Ack. For some reason it always wants to boot from the HDD (which has the hosed XP install).

Bios is set correctly to boot from CD first (it sees the drive on the boot priority menu), I know that drive works and have successfully booted into SuSE/Ubuntu before

(I'd be happy with straight Ubuntu, but mom's paranoid about all the peripherals working properly and thinks that's only possible under Windows. Also come to find out one of my online classes absolutely requires IE, so...)

[Fire_on_High]

Are you sure the drive works NOW, and on the exact same media type? I've gotten burned along those lines before....thought everything was hunky dory, couldn't get it to read my install CD, so I restored from the nearly failed drive I'd originally moved the install from instead using the registry key removal method and Ghost.

Few weeks later I needed to do something with the drive and...won't read storebought music or data CDs, won't read burns for either CDs or DVDs, and will read movie DVDs about 1 try in 5. I'm just glad I was able to swap the older drive in one last time and restore from it.