ID rant.

[Jester]

I know I have gone on about IDs in the past here, but yesterday at work was just the illustration of what I have been talking about. Two situations, one minor and not really their fault, and the other....the opposite.

First, had a table of 3 kind of young looking European folks sit down and order drinks. No problem. "May I see your ID please?" And of course they break out their European driver's licenses. In my head: "Oh, crap."
Out loud: "I'm sorry, I can't accept those."
THEM: "Why not?"
ME: "Because in the State of Florida, actually in most of America, we can only accept American Driver's Licenses, American ID cards, US Armed Forces ID cards, and passports."
THEM: "But these are driver's licenses."
ME: "I know that, but..."
ONE OF THEM TO THE OTHERS: "He said American driver's licenses."
TO ME: "Why is that?"
ME: "Because that is the law here in Florida. I don't like it, but it is the law I work under."
THEM: "But every place else we have been has taken these."
IN MY HEAD: AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
OUT LOUD: "I can't speak for what other people do, I can only be responsible for myself, and under Florida law, I can't take those. They have beaten this into our heads constantly."

Everything I have told these folks is true. And I understand their frustration. America's liquor laws are overly anal. Sadly, there is nothing I can do. Not surprisingly, my European friends decide to take their business elsewhere. And they were not SC's at all really, but I have to say, sometimes I can just see these situations coming, and when they sat down, I kind of saw this one coming.


The second situation, though, was a complete SC. Guy and girl sit down, and I approach them to get their order. Guy looks to be in late thirties/early forties, lady looks to be late twenties or so (has a youngish face). The law (and every place I have worked) says if they look 30 or under I have to ask for their ID. Two parts of the law that not everyone is that familiar with is that (a) technically, ANYONE purchasing alcohol has to have their ID with them, no matter how old they are, and (b) if the server/bartender asks for their ID and they do not have one, the server/bartender cannot serve them, no matter how old they are, PERIOD. With that in mind....

JESTER: "Hi there, folks. What can I get for y'all?"
SC GUY: "I'll have a Bud Light, please.
SC GIRL: "I'll have a margarita."
JESTER: [to SC GIRL] "May I see your ID please?"
SC GIRL: "Are you serious?" [kind of laughing about it]
JESTER: "I'm afraid so, ma'am."
SC GIRL: [no longer laughing] "I don't have my ID with me."
JESTER: [thinking: Oh, crap!] "I'm sorry, then I can't serve you alcohol."
SC GIRL: "Are you serious?"
Why do people think I am joking when I do this? It in no way is fun for me to piss you off when it comes to the alcohol you want on vacation, kids.
JESTER: "Again, I'm afraid I am."
SC GIRL: "What is it, people who look 35 or under or something?"
JESTER: "Actually, people who look 30 or under."
SC GIRL: "But I'm with him. Why would I be with a guy who's 40 if I'm not of age?"
JESTER: [thinking: I can think of about a hundred reasons, actually, but that's not the point.] "I don't know, ma'am, but I'm afraid if you don't have your ID, I can't serve you alcohol."
SC GIRL: "Don't you see these wrinkles?" She maybe had one or two "lines" at the corners of her eyes, but nothing I would call wrinkles. Please.
SC GUY: "What if I buy both of the drinks?"
JESTER: "Sorry, I can't do that."
SC GUY: "What if I buy both of the drinks at the bar and bring them over here?"
JESTER: "Um, no. See, once I ask for her ID, if she doesn't have it, not only can't I serve her, but if she has a drink, I actually have to take it away from her. Sorry." This is all true, incidentally.

The conversation went on like that in a similar vein for a few minutes, but in the end, he had a beer, paid for beer, left me no tip (no surprise, they weren't happy), and they left.

I know I have gone on about this before, but it drives me nuts.
I don't make the laws.
I don't even necessarily LIKE the laws.
But I have to work under these laws.
I am not and will not be accountable for what other servers/bartenders do or don't do.
You are not more important in my life than the potential for losing my job, having a court date, paying a hefty fine, spending some time in jail, and/or being unable to get another job in this field because of an incident of my violating the state's liquor laws.
Neither is your tip.
Unless it is in the high five figures range or up. And I am guessing that that just isn't gonna happen.

[Becks]

First, had a table of 3 kind of young looking European folks sit down and order drinks. No problem. "May I see your ID please?" And of course they break out their European driver's licenses. In my head: "Oh, crap."
Out loud: "I'm sorry, I can't accept those."
THEM: "Why not?"
ME: "Because in the State of Florida, actually in most of America, we can only accept American Driver's Licenses, American ID cards, US Armed Forces ID cards, and passports."
THEM: "But these are driver's licenses."
ME: "I know that, but..."
ONE OF THEM TO THE OTHERS: "He said American driver's licenses."
TO ME: "Why is that?"
ME: "Because that is the law here in Florida. I don't like it, but it is the law I work under."

Sounds like New Jersey's DMVs...they accept out of state driver's licenses, but not out of state IDs as proof of identity. Made it tons of fun for me to get an NJ ID...

[Jester]

Sounds like New Jersey's DMVs...they accept out of state driver's licenses, but not out of state IDs as proof of identity. Made it tons of fun for me to get an NJ ID...

Not too dissimilar from most of the alcohol ID laws I have worked under (mostly in Arizona and Florida). To wit, the only acceptable forms of ID are state-issued driver's licenses, state-issued ID cards from the state we are in, US Armed Forces ID cards, and international passports. That being said, most servers I know probably do take out of state state-issued ID cards, as well as Canadian driver's licenses, since for all intents and purposes of IDs being known to us, Canada and the US are about the same.

Can you tell I used to be a trainer for a corporate chain restaurant? For YEARS?

[friendofjimmyk]

When I was a bartender, we were not allowed to accept military IDs. The old ones that were still laminated were INCREDIBLY easy to fake. I knew that first hand because my brother was in the service and had a laminated one and all his friends that he brought home with him on leave altered their military IDs.

I HATED, I MEAN HATED people that argued with me over the fact that they did not have their ID! The only way I can serve someone IN SOME STATES, without ID is if the person who is ordering their drink is their legal guardian. They guardian orders it, I serve to the guardian, the guardian gives the drink to said minor. That is actually legal...however, the choice of serving the minor through the guardian is still legally up to the place of business...it may have been the law, but the establishment could still refuse to follow that law. Went along with the fact that establishments have the right to refuse service to anyone.

When I was 18, I went to the Florida Keys with my b/f at that time. He was 25. I couldn't drink and when the bartenders found out my age, I was told I was not even allowed in their establishments past 9pm. Sucked to be me.

As far as why would the SC girl be with a 40+ guy if she wasn't of age...wow, the answer to that question is nearly limitless and not always legal.

I was born in 1974 - the year of the tiger in the Chinese zodiac. I have a tattoo on my shoulder of a tiger with the year 1974 under it. WHen I was still drinking, and would forget my ID, I understood that I would be refused service, but yes, I tried to use the tattoo as proof of age. "Would I have this tattoo if I wasn't born that year?" And who the hell wants to fake that they are 30 years old? I did use the tattoo to convince a clerk to sell me cigs when I still smoked.

[Bliss]

Jester, every post I read by you, I admire you more and more. You're like our new Uncle Ace.

[Greenday]

SC GIRL: "But I'm with him. Why would I be with a guy who's 40 if I'm not of age?"

Two words: Hugh Hefner. Come on, do I really need to say anything else?

[Jester]

The only way I can serve someone IN SOME STATES, without ID is if the person who is ordering their drink is their legal guardian. They guardian orders it, I serve to the guardian, the guardian gives the drink to said minor. That is actually legal...however, the choice of serving the minor through the guardian is still legally up to the place of business...it may have been the law, but the establishment could still refuse to follow that law. Went along with the fact that establishments have the right to refuse service to anyone.

Yes, I have heard of this. I believe it applies in Texas and Wisconsin, not sure where else. But it definitely does NOT apply in Florida or Arizona, and yet I still get nitwits saying, "Oh, I'm his mother, it's okay." No, lady, it's not. Actually, Florida is so strict that it is illegal for ANYONE to give alcohol to someone under the age of 21, INCLUDING parents giving it to their own kids. I personally don't agree with that--heck, I don't agree with the 21 year old age limit--but it is still the law that I have to work under.

By the way, I am in the Florida Keys. You should come back now that you are of age. Heck of a party down here. (Just where did you think my "tropical island tourist town was, anyway? )

Jester, every post I read by you, I admire you more and more. You're like our new Uncle Ace.

Okay, I have no idea what the Uncle Ace reference is about, but even so, that comment is about the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week. Thanks. I mean that. For once, all my sarcasm is shelved, and I am honestly and sincerely humbled and warmed by your comments. Thank you.

[BusBus]

My cousin from Europe visited our family for a month over the summer. He is 19, so he can buy alcohol and smokes. Seeing as he was just the legal age for this stuff, I told him that he might get ID'ed. I took one look at his driver's license and said that there was no way anyone would accept it (it's a paper book with a photo glued inside). I told him to bring his passport along when we went drinking/clubbing. There were a few situations where he couldn't bring it along, so he would just try his luck buying ciggies (otherwise, I could always get them for him, as I am much older and have a provincial DL). He never got ID'ed once while he was here

[Broomjockey]

Yeah, I know the pain.

We're currently playing Jackass #2, which is rated Restricted. The amount of whining that people do when I ask for ID, and the even larger whining when I tell them they can't have a ticket without it drives me insane.

It's even more fun when I tell parents they can't take their kids in there, because everyone has to be over 18. It got to the point on the very first day we were showing it that I was telling people who started to protest "I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do, Federal Law states that for movies rated R every attendee must be 18 years of age or older, and carry ID as proof." And I say that verbatim to every single person who even tries the whole "but can't you..."

[Discourtesy Clerk]

"I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do, Federal Law states that for movies rated R every attendee must be 18 years of age or older, and carry ID as proof."

It's LAW in Canada?! Here it's just common company policy. And you can be just about any age to get in as long as you're accompanied by someone 17 or over. That's a really conservative law.

[friendofjimmyk]

By the way, I am in the Florida Keys. You should come back now that you are of age. Heck of a party down here. (Just where did you think my "tropical island tourist town was, anyway? )

Alas, I no longer partake in liquid refreshments of alcoholic kind, however, if I am ever in the keys, I will definitely come and drink a icy cold soda and I still tip very well. (Hell, I tip if I simply walk up and have the bartender poor me a glass of ice water)

I had an idea that you may have been in the keys, but wasn't quite sure.

Oh, and that law was Texas that I know of (I lived in the Dallas area for 7 years) and also Ohio. I was living in Ohio when I was 18 and my b/f (same one I went to the Keys went) considered becoming my legal guardian so that I could drink with him in the bars...really!

[Jester]

The Keys is a heckuva party EVEN if you don't partake of alcoholic refreshments...as surely you know, having been here.

Myself, I don't drink any more. I don't drink any less, either.

[Mark Healey]

I know I have gone on about IDs in the past here, but yesterday at work was just the illustration of what I have been talking about. Two situations, one minor and not really their fault, and the other....the opposite.

First, had a table of 3 kind of young looking European folks sit down and order drinks. No problem. "May I see your ID please?" And of course they break out their European driver's licenses. In my head: "Oh, crap."
Out loud: "I'm sorry, I can't accept those."
THEM: "Why not?"
ME: "Because in the State of Florida, actually in most of America, we can only accept American Driver's Licenses, American ID cards, US Armed Forces ID cards, and passports."
THEM: "But these are driver's licenses."
ME: "I know that, but..."
ONE OF THEM TO THE OTHERS: "He said American driver's licenses."
TO ME: "Why is that?"
ME: "Because that is the law here in Florida. I don't like it, but it is the law I work under."
THEM: "But every place else we have been has taken these."
IN MY HEAD: AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
OUT LOUD: "I can't speak for what other people do, I can only be responsible for myself, and under Florida law, I can't take those. They have beaten this into our heads constantly."

Everything I have told these folks is true. And I understand their frustration. America's liquor laws are overly anal. Sadly, there is nothing I can do. Not surprisingly, my European friends decide to take their business elsewhere. And they were not SC's at all really, but I have to say, sometimes I can just see these situations coming, and when they sat down, I kind of saw this one coming.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and I worked in the campus pizza and beer place, the beer reps would hand out little, what I called, field guides to ID's. They had all the states and Canadian provinces DLs and IDs and a few other things like green cards (which were actually pink at the time), military (active, retired and dependent) ID and some federal employee IDs.

I don't remember them having European DLs but at the time they were different for each country. I'm surprised they still aren't. Aren't the traffic laws different in each country? I know that freeway lane markings are just decoration in Italy

[Broomjockey]

It's LAW in Canada?! Here it's just common company policy. And you can be just about any age to get in as long as you're accompanied by someone 17 or over. That's a really conservative law.

This is a constant source of confusion when posting ratings here. Canadian "R" /= American "R"

Rough equivelency (American=Canadian)
G=G
PG=PG
PG-13=14A
R=18A
NC-17=R
If you'll notice, most NC-17 films don't get major theatrical releases in the states. This is to simply the issue of under 17 not being allowed in.

Also, another complicating factor, is the ratings system was established on a federal level, but individual provinces get to actually rate the movies, leading to sometimes conflicting ratings. The reason it was established federally is that the provinces aren't actually allow to make things illegal. Interesting fact that's taking a number of Legal classes to explain adequately.

[repsac]

This is a constant source of confusion when posting ratings here. Canadian "R" /= American "R"

Rough equivelency (American=Canadian)
G=G
PG=PG
PG-13=14A
R=18A
NC-17=R
If you'll notice, most NC-17 films don't get major theatrical releases in the states. This is to simply the issue of under 17 not being allowed in.

You're right. Most NC-17 films contain strong sexual content. In fact, when NC first came out, it was more intended for the pornography industry than anything.

That said, there have been a few NC-17 films that saw major theatrical release, most were later edited and rereleased as R. The NC rating being considered something of a black mark. See if you know any from this list.

Dead Presidents, 1995; edited version rated R for strong graphic violence, language, a sex scene and some drug use

The Evil Dead, 1981 (rated 1994), for substantial graphic horror violence and gore

The Hills Have Eyes, 2006, edited version rated R for strong gruesome violence and terror throughout, and for language. Original rating was NC-17.

Pulp Fiction, 1994, edited version rated R for strong graphic violence and drug use, pervasive strong language and some sexuality.

Starship Troopers, 1997; edited version rated R for graphic sci-fi violence and gore, and for some language and nudity

Team America: World Police, 2004; edited version rated R for graphic, crude and sexual humor, violent images and strong language—all involving puppets

All of these were re-edited and released again. Most started out as NC-17, only to be edited down to R and released in theaters. However, Evil Dead, originally rated R in the 80's, was actually RE-rated in the nineties into an NC-17 rating.