Sure, don't believe your keycutter.

[ShadowTiger]

So I'm a keycutter at a hardware store. I really enjoy what I do, but the fact that I can't speak well (Speech impediment, remedied by an intelligent glint in the eye, and a keen smile.) doesn't really help things when I need to convince a person of a certain something.

Cutting keys is like a puzzle, both visual and physical, depending on the method. I have a manual key cutting machine, which gives me much more control over the automatic ones, in case of the unusual aberration. The person cutting the keys has to know what is acceptable for use as what and why. It's mostly a visual thing, but all stages of a key's creation must be carefully monitored, as the slightest little bump or edge or plane can either be a total dud, or won't make the slightest bit of difference despite appearing like it'd make the key not work at all.


What really gets my goat is how people won't believe me that a KW1 is a substitute for an SC1, but don't believe me when I tell them that I can substitute an AR1 for an SE1.


So, to the customer who insists that she knows better than the person making their spare keys for them which blank to use, but then insists that they had better not make the key wrong, I say to you, you have certainly earned your keep.

I really have to start getting stuff in writing.

You don't have to know anything about these, but it does help to kinda know, in case you ever have to get a key copied. ... Actually, yes, it could very much help. It could actually mention it on your keys. Take a look. It's usually a letter, than one or two numbers. KW1, SC1, AR1, SE1, Y1, and DE6 are the most common, in that order. Heaven help you if you have a Medeco. I've seen Locksmiths refer to my key desk when someone shows them a Medeco key, and we're the ones who always send them to that very locksmith across the street to get the Medeco key copied. Ugh...

[Mango]

Heaven help you if you have a Medeco.

I used to have a Medeco and the above statement is entirely correct. There was only one locksmith in town that I found who could cut them. It cost $30 and took about half an hour just to cut a key. But then I found another locksmith, who still charged $30, but only took fifteen minutes. I thought I'd struck gold

m.

[poofy_puff]

I hate it how lots of car keys nowadays have microchips and it costs $75-$150 for a single copy of a key.

[protege]

Provided you can even *get* keys. Quite a few classic car owners run into that problem--the blanks are no longer made! For example, the MG has two keys, an oddly-shaped ignition key, and a small one for the doors and tailgate. Of the two, the ignition key can still be ordered, but not the door key. If I lose that one, I'm SOL--only option is to replace the door and tailgate locks!

[Midnight12]

if i really really wanted that key I'll surely take your word for it. and i bet you get many people try to get a car key made and do not tell you that it has or needs a chip in it, thus wasted time....

[poofy_puff]

and i bet you get many people try to get a car key made and do not tell you that it has or needs a chip in it, thus wasted time....

The key-maker already knows if it needs a chip or not even if the customer doesn't know. Blank keys come with a chip already in them, and they can't make copies of keys that have said chip without the special machine that is used to program said chips.

And a lot of times, only the dealership has the necessary equipment. More and more locksmiths are starting to carry it too, but Toyotas, for example, use a different system than say, Fords. I know this because I have a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Ranger whose keys both have a microchip, and I got the Ford one made at a hardware store ($75.00) and the Toyota one had to be done at the dealership (which would have been $140.00 but they waived it because the car should have come with two keys when it was purchased). It's a racket.

[ShadowTiger]

EDIT: Simultaneous post with poofy, but eh.

Oh, there are actually some machines that can program the chip in so you don't need to go to your dealer for another copy. It's similar to the machine I have, (Looks far less "blue" in person. ) but you can slide a chip into the machine, take the car key's chip into the machine too, and punch in a few numbers, and wham bam thank you sam, you've got a duplicate car key.

I know there are some Ace Hardware stores that will do that. You just have to call them to find out if they can do it.

When you do get there, supervise! Wear glasses, because sparks will most likely fly. You can actually inspect the key yourself before they start It's very easy to pick the wrong key. You can ask them to give you the two keys which look the most similar, and then look at them yourself. It's entirely possible to second-guess the key guy himself; sometimes they can get overconfident. There really isn't any more of a trick to it than comparing both keys first side by side so they're both facing you, thin, so you can see past them the easiest, like this: || not like <¯===;= and see if they match up there first. If they match very well here, you've at least got the right brand. Then turn them back stretching across your vision horizontally to look at their length and at any interesting grooves that don't quite match up. It's entirely possible to make a longer key(The Blank) out of a shorter key(Yours), but the opposite isn't true.

Also check for tiiiiny bumps on the surface of your key's ridges that might be difficult for him to grind, if he's doing it manually. Hell, even the automatic ones might find them too small to acknowledge.


Remember, there's absolutely nothing wrong with requesting him to do it again or to be careful around a certain region. If you want, you can "scare" your keymaker into doing a particularly careful job, rather than them going on autopilot based on the confidence of past successes, by saying "The last three guys who tried to make this key failed, and the keys didn't work. Can you see any interesting flaws in the key and the blank you're going to use?" Thank them a lot for their care, and they'll make you perfect keys.

[poofy_puff]

Oh, there are actually some machines that can program the chip in so you don't need to go to your dealer for another copy. It's similar to the machine I have, (Looks far less "blue" in person. ) but you can slide a chip into the machine, take the car key's chip into the machine too, and punch in a few numbers, and wham bam thank you sam, you've got a duplicate car key.

I know that's right, but that's what i'm saying... The ACE Hardware I went to had a machine that would do a 2002 Ford key but not a 2007 Toyota key. Or maybe they just didn't have the 2007 Toyota blank keys in stock at the time.

[ShadowTiger]

It's entirely possible. I get a *TREMENDOUS* amount of requests to copy those exact keys, coincidentally enough. Two of them didn't even have a chip in them.

They should have a book in their counter or wherever they're working behind that should have all of the models and key blanks in it. It's alphabetical sorted by the car maker.

These days, I just ask the person if they want a key that will open the door in case they ever lock their keys inside of the car, which has happened to a lot of people in our parking lot. Some of them do indeed oblige, and I am more than happy to make them a backup key.

[DGoddessChardonnay]

And a lot of times, only the dealership has the necessary equipment. More and more locksmiths are starting to carry it too, but Toyotas, for example, use a different system than say, Fords. I know this because I have a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Ranger whose keys both have a microchip, and I got the Ford one made at a hardware store ($75.00) and the Toyota one had to be done at the dealership (which would have been $140.00 but they waived it because the car should have come with two keys when it was purchased). It's a racket.

And we're expecting to run into that cost thing when we can get to the local Toyota dealership to have extra keys made for our '92 Corolla.

We have an original key that operates the ignition, but we lost the one for the doors a few years ago when Mom's truck was broken into and her cup of change was taken (the set of keys with both keys for the car were in the cup.) They were never recovered, so we'll have to bite the bullet and go to the dealership to have a new one made.

We'll need at least one ignition key and 2 door lock keys (one for me, one for Mom.) Hopefully that'll be on our To-Do list for 2010 (couldn't do it this year, as we've been working on getting the last 2 things paid off. One down, one more to go.)

[christopherius]

My chrysler key has a chip in it but i'm lucky because there is a way to program it without going to the dealership. Shows how right in my manual. Probably very few cars capable of that I would think.

[poofy_puff]

These days, I just ask the person if they want a key that will open the door in case they ever lock their keys inside of the car, which has happened to a lot of people in our parking lot. Some of them do indeed oblige, and I am more than happy to make them a backup key.

That is a great idea, it never occurred to me to do that. We still needed that fully-functional second key though.

[poofy_puff]

We'll need at least one ignition key and 2 door lock keys (one for me, one for Mom.) Hopefully that'll be on our To-Do list for 2010 (couldn't do it this year, as we've been working on getting the last 2 things paid off. One down, one more to go.)

Wow they were still making cars with different keys for the ignition and door as late as 1992? I remember those from the 70's... some time in the 80's there started being more and more cars with the same key for the door and the iggy.

[Nurian]

You're the keymaker. You're the expert. You're the guru. You tell me you can substitute one blank for the other, I believe you. You tell me the key will only work if I'm smothered in molasses and dancing the female lead of Swan Lake, then I'm going out to buy me a tutu.

[mandaliz8704]

Kind of the opposite, but the key guy at the local Jeep dealership impressed the hell out of me one day. We had to replace the cylinder in the ignition, it was sticking and just being a general PITA...so I go on down to Jeep, and the guy takes a look at my key and put the cylinder together in about 2 seconds flat. I thought to myself that there was no way... how could he have gotten it right after just glancing at the key?

It was right, and I havent had a problem with my ignition since.