Apparently you don't have to pay for work! Who knew!

[Merriweather]

Heh, a guy I knew wanted me to make him a warlocks robe for a con, based on a velvet bathrobe. It would have been about 100-120 hours of embroidery.

He wanted me to do it for $25.


NO.

My daughter is a quilter. She constantly has people see one she's made, and ask her to make them one. Then when she tells them how much it will cost (based on quilt shop quality fabrics and even minimum wage for her time) and they flip, tell her they can get one for so much cheaper at Wally World. She just looks at them and says "Ah, you want a Wally World quilt. Sorry, I make hand made, carefully stitched, quality fabric, heirloom quality custom made quilts. I don't make Wally world quilts, you'll have to go there for cheap, fall apart, made with cheap exploited foreign labor quilts".

(Not fratching on business practices, just pointing out differences in hand made custom and store bought cheap). Honest.

[Andara Bledin]

I've been telling people I'm an illustrator, but perhaps I should be more adamant on the graphic arts vs fine arts difference, since most people seem to miss that uh... little distinction.

Go with "designer" over "artist" or "illustrator." Because people are stupid and won't give you as much guff the less you call yourself an artist, regardless of reality.

And contacts are your friend. They're there to protect everybody involved.

^-.-^

[chainedbarista]

ah, the creative process; complicated and time consuming. some people just don't get it; in order to create that piece they just gotta have, the person has to research, conceptualize, draw, refine, present, refine again and over and over until the buyer is satisfied.

how many hours? sometimes a few, sometimes so many, you lose count. any fool who thinks a piece is 'on the spot' has never had a creative cell active in their brain.

[EvilEmpryss]

So many times I just wanted to snap at them and say, "Look if you don't like the prices, then don't buy it. All the complaining in the world isn't going to make the prices come down."

This. This is why I don't stand around my school's bookstore criping about the cost of textbooks. I just go online and see if I can do better. Find it cheaper elsewhere (if you can), or do without.

My daughter is a quilter... when she tells them how much it will cost (based on quilt shop quality fabrics and even minimum wage for her time) and they flip, tell her they can get one for so much cheaper at Wally World.

And this is why I learned to sew -- and cook, and draw, and do home improvement, and repair my computer -- in the first place. Nothing teaches you the value of a person's time than having to invest your own time in a complicated, detailed project.

Go with "designer" over "artist" or "illustrator." Because people are stupid and won't give you as much guff the less you call yourself an artist, regardless of reality.

And contacts are your friend. They're there to protect everybody involved.

I like Andara's suggestion on the designer bit. And if anyone balks at signing a contract, emphasize the part where it protects them by spelling out exactly what they are to receive before they have to pay. Nothing like a little self-interest to bring someone around.

[Seraph]

Yep, know exactly what you mean. Had someone ask me today if I'd make them a really nice blog theme, design a logo, and then build them a php database so they could update it from their iphone....for $100. I mean, REALLY?!

[Victoria J]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Just tired of juggling idiots. This person was offering me something that worked out to about $1.50 an hour, tops. Just plain rude.

Every juggling act is improved by adding chainsaws...

just saying,

Victoria J.

[Gizmo]

So many times I just wanted to snap at them and say, "Look if you don't like the prices, then don't buy it. All the complaining in the world isn't going to make the prices come down."

I had this earlier this week. I'm involved with an annual Charity event and we normally have 5-6 top line guests but this year we aren't so lucky due to working commitments. I happened to link to a new guest and had a person moaning that the guest wasn't good enough and the prices are too much. Every time someone else commented this person would post another sarcastic message about pricing etc. I had to resist saying something rude and ended up putting "No one is forcing you to attend".

luckily another commenter could do what I couldn't and put the person in her place.

EDIT: One of the reasons we don't have as many top line guests this year is because less people have bought tickets so we don't have the budget and the guests are being more conservative about doing such events. Both are caused by the recession.

[Dreamstalker]

My daughter is a quilter. She constantly has people see one she's made, and ask her to make them one.

Someone I petsit for saw that my mom knit me a pair of fingerless gloves with a mitten flap, and said that she wanted to commission mom to make them a pair.

So mom calls her, and they start discussing the mittens. She wants mom to do it for about $15 Er...NO. That might cover the yarn. Mom said (not to her) "The only way you might get them that cheap is to learn to do it yourself; you want me to make them, you pay." This woman is not poor and we both know it.

[wagegoth]

People are so used to the cheap and cheaply made stuff coming out of sweatshops that they cannot fathom how much time is involved in handmaking something.

I knit. Someone asked me one time about making something for them to give as a gift. I told them I'd be happy to do it, but the number of hours involved for me to do it would make it cheaper for them to shop at Saks. And it bugs me, because these same people will go to a local store and drop hundreds on some label item that is made a sweatshop.

A coworker is a quilter. We were just talking about the time involved. He told me that he can piece and stitch a quilt in less than two days, but the actual quilting takes a LOT more time. He gets the same stupid requests from people about making quilts, and when they hear how much it would cost, they make the same stupid comments about going to Walmart.

[auntiem]

Someone I petsit for saw that my mom knit me a pair of fingerless gloves with a mitten flap, and said that she wanted to commission mom to make them a pair.

So mom calls her, and they start discussing the mittens. She wants mom to do it for about $15 Er...NO. That might cover the yarn. Mom said (not to her) "The only way you might get them that cheap is to learn to do it yourself; you want me to make them, you pay." This woman is not poor and we both know it.

I can knit and I'd pay someone top dollar to knit fingerless mitten flap gloves. They are a total PITA - the only knitting project to make me cry in frustration.

ETA - I'll do small knitting projects for a friend if they ask - usually I charge "double the yarn" - I take them to the yarn store and have them pick out the skein they want and I get the same price skein that I want. Works great if they want a pair of socks, 'cause then mama gets her yarn and sock knitting fix taken care of in one swoop.

[Mytical]

There are several things I wish I could afford to have made for me, but I know for a fact that I could not pay what the time and materials are worth. Thus no knitting goodies for me. Simple enough concept, but alas there are too many people who see the mass produced stuff for cheap and think that the GOOD stuff should be as cheap.

No, the good stuff is expensive, and rightly so. Either buy the mass produced stuff and face the lack of quality, or get quality and pay for it . Sometimes you only get to chose one of the fast, cheap, or good.

The same goes with the OP. If they want GOOD work, they should pay the OP for that. Simple concept, but alas EW's can not always grasp even the simple concepts.

[ShadowBall]

The thing with clients is they know there are people out there who will stupidly do a shitload of work for pennies an hour. I know because I'm one of those stupid people...I've done writing work (500-word original articles) for less than a dollar each because it was a matter of either bust your ass for a little change or demand a more worthwhile wage and make no money because clients are cheap little dickbags.

Most people who want artwork done seem to think that you just type the idea into a computer and Photoshop makes it for you. And that there is zero effort involved on the part of the artist. The average ignorant moron seems to think that making art is like making a drink...you put a few bits and pieces into a blender, press a button, it does all the work for you, and then spits out a pretty finished piece.

I cannot tell you how many people I've worked for who just took my art and ran. Some got away with finished pieces, and some just got away with low-res watermarked stuff. Others complained that my rate of six bucks an hour was too high for their precious widdle wallets. One person argued with me over a four-dollar up-front payment when I was doing 10 articles for him for eight dollars (not each - either for the whole lot). Being an artist with no self-esteem is hard; I personally do not feel my art is any good, so I'll sell my work for next to nothing. That's my own problem, though.

I would personally pay such a person money to see them do the work they expect me to do. Art does take a lot of time and many folks just do not realize that. There is one person who I do not mind doing free work for, and that's a family friend named Ann. But I often carpool with Ann to go visit a friend who lives six hours away, and instead of giving her gas money, she'll often tell me she'll take me where I need to go if I'll design a logo or a website or what-not. But if it was anyone else, they'd be paying.

Go check out a site called ODesk sometime, and you'll see how cheap people can be. People who want professional-quality identity packages with interactive Flash websites who are willing to pay 50 cents an hour. And they'll have an interview list that's about three dozen applicants long. That is what perpetuates the belief that artists can be bought cheap and those who dare ask more than a dollar an hour are greedy.

[Racket_Man]

the only time I got someone to do a knitting project for me was like 25 years ago. my aunt who was an avid knitter asked me one year what I wanted for Xmas. being into Dr. Who even back then I told her I would like a Tom Baker season 2 or 3 mega length scarf. I managed to find the pattern somewhere on a bulletin boardand offered to buy the yarn. she turned down the yarn offer as she had enough already in colors near to the pattern.

If I were to have paid her for the yarn (lots of it) AND her time (not that hard of a pattern but the seer length of said scarf) it would cost (in 1985 terms) enough

I wore that thing to death esp when I worked in the Loop in Chicago. I still have the scarf somewhere.

[Andara Bledin]

I personally do not feel my art is any good, so I'll sell my work for next to nothing. That's my own problem, though.

Well, yes and no.

Pricing your work too low will cause some customers to not respect you because they perceive that you don't respect yourself.

^-.-^

[Betweenshades]

Heh. I had a former friend of mine demand a knitted hat (with a pom pom on top.) from me. She then went on to demand a certain yarn in a certain color (Pink Marino Wool). When I told her no, her response was that she would pay me $5 for it.

Right. Let me get right on that.