Car salesman are dishonest!! [Long]

[Moon§hiner]

Not a slam on the OP, but it's an interesting read on someone that went underground into the car business.. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

[Gurndigarn]

But I've never been in a store, when I asked the opinion of one of the workers about their products, and they said something negative about it. Maybe it's just personal experience.

Hell, I can't afford to lie. I work with video games, and my company regularly sells off excess or older units. Since I get little exposure, I get very few customers (mostly other people in the business), so I NEED them to be repeat customers. Which means that if I don't tell the truth about problems a game has, they figure it out real quickly, and are less likely to call me up. However, if I'm honest about the flaws, they (1) put me on the top of their to-call list, and (2) belive me when I say I've got a bargain for them.

[Arachne]

Everyone in sales lies. You ever go to a store, pick up a product, and ask one of the workers if it's any good? What's their answer "Oh yeah, it's real good." Come on, give me a break.

I don't know about other people in sales, but this is definately not true of me, and I'd probably get fired if I tried it.

When people pick up yarn and ask if it's good, I'm honest with them. All of the yarn that we sell is good for SOMETHING. Some is higher quality, but it's not always worth paying the extra price for the quality. Some is hard to work with. Some has restrictions on care (you can't machine wash it, for example). Some might not be appropriate for a given project. (The lady who came in the other day and wanted to buy multicolored fuzzy yarn for a sweater for her husband, for example.) If someone asks me if yarn is "good", I'll point out all of the pros and cons I can see, and then tell them it's up to them.

Now you might say that I take home a paycheck regardless of whether I make the sale, but that's not absolutely the case. It's not a given that the store I manage will stay open -- it can be very hard for a store that sells nothing but yarn and related supplies to stay in busness.

But if I lie to my customers, or even cheat the truth, and send them towards anything less than the very best possible yarn for their project, they won't come back. There are lots of cheaper ways to get yarn, ordering online for example, and the thing that draws people to my store is the expert advice that they get. I do lose the occasional sale, but I think I more than make up for it with the people who are loyal to me, because they know that I'll never steer them wrong.

[RailroadMonster]

Everyone in sales lies.

I don't lie, yet I sell things. I work in a grocery store. We sell food. If someone hands me a black, slimy apple and asks me if it's good, I don't tell them that it's "ripe". You know why? Because even though the apple IS ripe, it's also rotten. To say that it's ripe would be only half the truth, mon ami.

[myswtghst]

I'm a little sad reading this, to see people outright slamming the OP, when the whole point of this forum/thread is to bash on the SC's, not the people haraunged by them.

I know that salesmen, in general, tell little white lies or work around the truth, and I don't have a problem with it. There is a difference between outright lying and working around the truth, though. The OP here did not lie, he wasn't even aware of the "lie" that was told and just assumed his coworker told the truth. So lets give him a break, for starters.

If I went into a dealership with a list of demands, even if they were simply my needs, I would expect to have to negotiate. A car is a very expensive piece of merch, and obviously what I want/need isn't always going to jive with what they can do. I'm aware that they'll say yes, and then say but/and/if. It's how a car is sold.

I took out the last bit because I probably overreacted, I just was feeling defensive on the OP's behalf.

[AFpheonix]

I'm a little sad reading this, to see people outright slamming the OP, when the whole point of this forum/thread is to bash on the SC's, not the people haraunged by them.

While I do think people are jumping on the "beat on the OP bandwagon" in this instance, the nice thing about this forum is that when you tell your story and it's painfully obvious to us that you as the CSR contributed to the suck factor of the story, we'll let you know. Then we share how we handle similar situations that we've encountered, and everyone learns how to handle those situations better in their own jobs. This is not a bad thing.

However, I don't think the OP was outright lying, some of it was that he was dealt a bad hand by his coworker and he was also dealing with a clueless customer. I don't think it's a contradiction in terms to say that he could "absolutely" obtain financing for someone, as long as conditions were met. Do I think he could phrase better to cover his ass? Yes, probably something more along the lines of, "sure, let me see what I can do for you," always works well for me.
My job is unique in a lot of ways because I don't upsell items (hey, would you like to go from plain vicodin to vicodin ES for just $5.99 more? ) but still, the way I phrase things really makes a huge difference in how customers understand the transaction and any restrictions that may come of it.

[myswtghst]

I do agree--we should make a point when it's obvious the OP was being a bad CSR. I just don't think the OP was, in this case. So thanks.

As a side note, and for future reference: I have a tendency to play devil's advocate/jump on the side of anyone who appears to be the underdog, unless that person is the SC. I just can't help being argumentative sometimes. I don't ever mean to offend anyone!

[protege]

I think what some of us were trying to say, is that the OP didn't lie...but had to deal with the fallout caused by a coworker. Let's keep things civil, OK?

[Kiwi]

When someone askes me how something is and I dont like it, I dont say that.... I spin it into a positive

"Its very classic/modern/bold/muted isnt it?"
"I think that would be a great gift for your mother/father/brother/dog"
"That item is made by a very well known local artist, they use the *blank* process, have you heard of that?"
"I think the good thing about black/white/cream items is that they fit in anywhere"

etc etc

part of my job is to sell things to customers to help fundraise for my notforprofit organisation, if I dont like something to bad. If the customer picks it up and looks at it, admires it and likes it, then who am I to disparage their taste. I always try and find something about the item/artist/process anything that I can say I like about it without flat out say what Im really thinking..... "no I think its tacky and hideous"

I dont think im lying to my customers when I do it, now Im not being 100 totaly blatently honest about my opinion, but to be totaly blatently honest I dont think most customers want my opinion. They want to be right....reassured that what they are picking out is going to suit the intended purpose. So I find some positive feature and focus on that....

But then I dont sell life or death things....I sell exhibition catalouges, art books and jewellry...

[Rahmota]

I am trying to remain civil and am not intending to compleatly bash on the OP. Some of his comments and attitudes I disagree with and have expressed that disagreement and why. I do understand that buying a vehicle will involve negotiation. But there is a difference between negotiation and gathering the proper information so that effective and honorable negotiation can be done. The name of the game in sales is they start high we start low and meet somewhere in the middle usually.

As for the situation the OP was in I will agree it sounds like he got the shuffle dumped on him from his coworker. But thats life in a dealership. I worked in a dealership and saw more backstabbing and treachery among the salesstaff than the ancient romans had.



But let me give you an example. Say we have a 1993 Dodge Dynasty 4cyl automatic with 130k miles. Not an unlikely kind of car to see on a used lot. If I ask the salesman if the car was smoked in and he says no because he knows the detail department sprayed the coverup smell good stuff in it that is being dishonest. Or if I ask if they repaired anythign and he says no and i find out they did that can be considered fraud in some areas.

Or lets say the car was a 1999 Honda Civic 4cyl 5speed. Another typical car found on a used lot. I ask how the clutch is and if its been replaced or is worn. If the salesman tells me its great and it isnt then he is being dishonest. If it is slipping and he knows it and does not tell me he is lying to me and is going to peeve me quite dramatically and I will not care if he makes the sale or not as I will most likely walk off. I personally would rather have a salesman be upfront and honest about any issue he knows with the car as that will affect whether I buy the car at all. And any profit is better than no profit. Especially since the book value , wholesale value and asking price are three very different thigns. Not to mention on new cars there is invoice cost, window price as well as any market value additions.

Like when we got the New Charger, We had the only three in the Cincy market for about two weeks and the dealership slapped a 1200$ market value addition on each of them. If I asked what that was for and the salesman didnt tell me that it was just another mark up for the dealership since we where the only ones in the area to have the car on the lot that would be lying to me. If I ask the salesman how long the car has sat on the lot and he doesnt tell me the truth that is dishonest. If I ask the salesman anything and he doesnt respond with the total and compleate truth it will reflect very negatively on them.

So not trying to bash on the OP at all.Car salesmen in general and some of the OP comments and attitude are what I am questioning/commenting upon.

[Jester]

I am always honest with people about the stuff I am selling, but since they are in my restaurant/bar to eat or drink, they are probably not going to go somewhere else. Also, there are ways to make the negative positive. For example, a conversation I have almost daily....

CUSTOMER: "How are your conch fritters?"
JESTER: "I don't know firsthand, as I don't personally like fritters of any sort. However, a lot of people who order them love them!"

They appreciate that honesty. I am not going to tell them I like them when in fact it is something I would never eat.


Now, about car salesmen....I have had both good and bad experiences with these folks. I list the dealerships in the good ones because, well, I would definitely do business with them again, and good ones deserve the pub, right?

The Bad: You Want Me To Do What?

Years ago, when I was shopping for what would become Babs (my truck before my current one), I went to one dealer in Phoenix on my bicycle, as I was carless at the time, and I don't mind riding. My bicycle is pretty damn sweet, looks pretty damn sweet, and looks like it cost a sweet amount...which it did. So...at this one dealership, we were talking about this and that, and out of the blue the salesman tells me that he can knock down the down payment if I want to "trade in" my bicycle. I asked him if he actually planned to put it on the lot and sell it. "No, but I ride, and I think I would enjoy it." Now, my bicycle is my baby, and it is not something I use simply for transportation, but for recreation and enjoyment as well. In other words, I ain't trading it in just to get a car. I told the man as much, and tried not to ask him if he was out of his gourd. And the crazy part is, after I told him this, he STILL tried to talk me into that deal. I left that dealership without buying, rather pissed off.

The Bad: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself

During the same time period, I went shopping with a friend of mine who is a professional mechanic. Since I have a background in sales and marketing, and he knew cars really well, we figured we had all bases covered. We were right.

We were at one dealership at night, so it was dark out. And we were looking at this one particular car. And we were asking questions. And then the salesman screwed up, since he apparently had no idea who he was dealing with.

MECHANIC: "Has this car ever been in an accident?"
SALESMAN: "No. No it hasn't."
MECHANIC: "Then why has it been repainted?"
SALESMAN: ".....um....what?"
MECHANIC: "Here.....here.....and here. You can clearly see that it's been painted over in these spots."
JESTER AND SALESMAN:

How he saw this shit on a dark lot with only the lot lights to go by, I don't know. But I didn't buy from them, either.

The Bad: Do You Understand The Words That Are Coming Out Of My Mouth?

A while back, shortly before I got my current vehicle, I was helping my friend shop for her new one. She had very specific requirements for her truck, and that made the pool of possibilities that much smaller. And these were REQUIREMENTS for various reasons, not just what she WANTED. Well, several salesmen I spoke to on the phone tried to sell us this or that that completely did not meet the requirements, and after I told them that these did not meet our REQUIREMENTS, still tried to sell me on the vehicles. What part of "requirements" don't you understand?

The Good: The Shadow Knows

Before Babs, I bought the Shadow from a Phoenix-area dealership (Biddulph), and they were very cool about everything. Remembering that, when I was shopping for the car that would become Babs, I visited them again. Again, they were very cool, very friendly, very helpful, and very non-pressure. I would have bought from them yet again, but due to my credit, the financing fell through. Ah, well. The good news there, though, is that resulted in my finding Babs later that week.

The Good: That Truck Looks Might Familiar

When I had decided that it was time to trade Babs in, I started calling dealerships in both Miami and Key West. I told them exactly what I wanted. I had a blue two-door 1989 Chevy Blazer, and I wanted something similar: a mid-sized SUV built on a truck platform. Not one of those behemoths that hog the road. Also not a car calling itself an SUV that is really just a modern station wagon. But something like what I had, only newer. And nothing red (attracts cops the most) and no Dodges (BAD history with them). And blue would be a bonus, but the color was not that big a deal.

A few things came along, but either the vehicle wasn't right or the price wasn't right. I was in no hurry to buy, as Babs was still very solid mechanically. After a couple months, right before Christmas 2005, Larry from a Key West dealership (Duncan) called me up. He said, "You aren't gonna believe this. We have a blue two-door 2000 Chevy Blazer. Like your truck...only newer." Well, duh....and wow. "I'll be right there!" I told him. Four days later, I bought the damn thing. Not only is it great, but the dealer gave me more than blue book for Babs (and only $100 less than I was going to ask for if I had sold her privately), AND gave me a very fair price on the deal. And the only thing wrong with the truck that the salesman hadn't told me about (broken fuel gauge) was something that was easy to overlook (when it always reads full, it's easy to not notice that it really isn't full) and was not something that was that big a deal, in the long run. Didn't even make that big a deal on the summer road trip to Ohio and back. And I couldn't be happier with Cathy. She rocks...broken fuel gauge and all.

[Gurndigarn]

I'm a little sad reading this, to see people outright slamming the OP, when the whole point of this forum/thread is to bash on the SC's, not the people haraunged by them.

Mostly. But we try not to be hypocritical, either. It's not fair to bash on the customers doing stupid things when the employees are also doing things they shouldn't.

I do that some of the responses were probably a bit too direct in their attacks. I tried my best to not be personal while pointing out what I felt were flaws in ISellCars's logic. Which, incidentally, I suspect is partially a semantics problem. If he had said "Every salesman puts spin on things" rather than "Every salesman lies", it probably would have gone over a lot better.

When asked, saying something "runs fine" when you know the clutch is beginning to die is a lie, and gives the business a bad reputation. Saying "it's beginning to show some age issues, that's why the price is as low as it is" is wonderful spin*, because it tells the customer exactly what he knows (or should know, at least) in a positive way, and it doesn't give him any help him during barganing.


* Yeah, I know the next question is "What age issues?" You tell them in a positive-spin way, and when they ask about getting it fixed, you say you can, but it'll raise the price a bit (remember, you already told them you priced it low because of issues).

At this point, either they'll buy it, or move along to another vehicle— but if they ask you how this one runs, they're more likelt to belive you when you say you don't know of any issues it has. And sooner or later**, someone will need a fixer-upper car and take the one with the gimpy clutch.

** If you priced it reasonably, of course.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I'm a little sad reading this, to see people outright slamming the OP, when the whole point of this forum/thread is to bash on the SC's, not the people haraunged by them.

I know that salesmen, in general, tell little white lies or work around the truth, and I don't have a problem with it. There is a difference between outright lying and working around the truth, though. The OP here did not lie, he wasn't even aware of the "lie" that was told and just assumed his coworker told the truth. So lets give him a break, for starters.

I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. The way he told the story, it sounded like the salesman thought there was a lease option on the car, and only found out there wasn't when he went to finalize the transaction.

In which case it is not a lie, but an honest mistake.

I know car salesmen tell little lies and offer nonfull disclosure. I was a little put off by the OP coming right out and saying it though. I guess it's one of those things I already know but prefer not to be told about it.

[TNT]

My mother used to always drag me along when she went car shopping. I don't know why... she was good at it. A memorable moment came when she test drove a car she really wanted. I could tell she loved it and wasn't even going to ask my opinion before buying it. When we got back, the following conversation took place...

Mother: Give me a take it or leave it price.
Dealer: Oh, we can't talk price unless we know you're a serious buyer.

Mom whipped out a cashier's check good "up to $25,000."

Mother: Does that look serious to you?
Dealer: Very serious.
Mother: Go f**k yourself.

As we were walking to the car, we were literally chased by just about everybody in the dealership. Mom's response was, "Go f**k yourself some more."

The salesman I'll always remember came from an earlier deal... Mom kept calling around being very specific about what she wanted and how much she was willing to pay. Salesman after salesman said, "We can do that." But when we got to the dealership, they'd always say something like, "Darn... I didn't know you wanted automatic. You have to go up to higher-end model for that..."

Just when all hope seemed lost:

Mom: Here's what I want. I'll pay $200 a month for it. [This was in the early '80s].
Salesman: I think I can do that.

So we went out to the dealership. The salesman immediately won her heart when he handed her the keys and said, "Take it out on some highways, country roads, through the city. Bring it back when you're satisfied it's the car you want."

So, mom and I go cruising around. We returned to the dealership.

Mom: I like this car.
Salesman: I have to apologize to you. I promised you $200 a month, but I can't do it.
Mom: [Sigh]
Salesman: Best I can do is $203 a month. I'm really sorry.
Mom: Where do I sign?

The salesman didn't know it, but my mother owned a bar... she passed out that salesman's cards to everybody.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Mother: Does that look serious to you?
Dealer: Very serious.
Mother: Go f**k yourself.

Your mom is my current hero.